Therapist says if you're an atheist you should lie to your kids about God.
- Thread starter DOC
- Start date
Thermal
August Member
Wildly unfair. Here in the States, the boots-on-the-ground xians don't exchange a penny or influence anyone, excepting by example. Please don't hold up the occasional Joel Olsteen (sp) and condemn all xianity, including those working a soup kitchen or volunteering at a hospital.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
I agree. There is a tendency for the worst and most cupidinous fundamentalists to commandeer the word "Christian," and deny it to those who don't share their narrow, punitive, exclusionist views. We must remember that a great many people who call themselves Christians are not those, but a variety of believers trying in diverse ways to do some good in the world, many of them volunteering their own resources, as well as their time and energy. Some do it better than others. You may disapprove of their choices, their priorities, their rules, and, of course their faith itself. All such criticisms have standing, but to say they're all doing it for power and money diminishes the good many do, misidentifies the harm others do, and also dissipates the argument against those who really are servants of power and money.
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Teaching kids that some people believe in gods is not the same as telling them gods really exist!
Thermal
August Member
Much like telling them the tooth fairy will bring them money isn't the same as telling them some other people believe this.
I don't think it harms the very young to innocently believe in all manner of the supernatural. As they grow up, I think they sort it out for themselves with parents that encourage inquisitiveness and value the truth.
Santa is the best example for me. It doesn't hurt them to believe when young, and they learn that goodness comes from those who love them, even if personified sometimes. They'll get it in their time, as long as they are not threatened lifelong with fire and brimstone.
I Am The Scum
Philosopher
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- Mar 5, 2010
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You can still have fun with Santa and the tooth fairy without telling your kid it's real.
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This. This is the core problem with any and all versions of "bUt yoU'lL DeSTRoY tHe MaGIC!" argument.
There is no form of personal satisfaction, sense of joy or wonder, or any other positive quality that literally requires you to believe false things to be true.
Thermal
August Member
That's true. You can also discipline the tyke for showing any form of imagination and shame them for pretending. Got a point in there?
Who exactly is advocating disciplining children for "any form of imagination or pretending?"
Is this another hill you've just picked?
Thermal
August Member
IATS offered an irrelevant comparison. I offered another in kind. Spirit of the Holidays and all.
Is this another lawn you've told the kids to stay off?
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
This.
There's also the problems with kids who feel lied to and develop trust issues when they realise Santa isn't real. I don't know how many they are, but they're my main argument against trying to portray Santa as real.
Other than "just don't freaking lie to your own kids".
Harry Potter, Santa Claus, and God are all in the same category. His comparison is valid, yours is not.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
Nah. If asked by a child I'd tell them that we don't really know what happens after death, but some people believe you go to Heaven or get born and get to live on Earth again, and isn't that a comforting thought? ETA: then I'd ask the child what they thought, get a discussion going so they got to talk about their thoughts.
Christians offended by this are encouraged to tell me how their idea that the kid is likely going to Hell to suffer for an eternity is less painful or horrific.
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Thermal
August Member
Sez you. BTW, his comparison referred to realism in child rearing strategies. Mine did too. Your out in left field invocation of Harry Potter makes me think your white patent leather loafers are too tight.
OOookkaaaay.
Arguing with you is... weird. It's like you're always having a different discussion from everyone else and you're always really, really passionate about the discussion that's going on in your alternative universe.
Either just jump ahead to the "Thermal flounces out of the thread (for the first time)" stage or the "Thermal now shifts into arguing that nobody is really disagreeing" stage and don't waste our time.
Arguing with you is... weird. It's like you're always having a different discussion from everyone else and you're always really, really passionate about the discussion that's going on in your alternative universe.
Either just jump ahead to the "Thermal flounces out of the thread (for the first time)" stage or the "Thermal now shifts into arguing that nobody is really disagreeing" stage and don't waste our time.
Thermal
August Member
Aaahhh, the beloved 'alternative universe' strawman argument you so love to dismissively roll out in lieu of honest discussion. Here it's only the 5th day of the year, too.
Also it's a little precious how you demand there only be two possible POVs in a discussion. The innocence is charming.
Bonus points for lying about 'flouncing out of the discussion'. I occasionally bail from unproductive exchanges with a specific poster, but it is sweet how you misrepresent that too.
Always a pleasure.
I guess other religions will have different ways to help distressed children. For example Chinese religions like Buddhism and Taoism might comfort a distressed child by saying grandma could come back as an animal the child likes.
From the NCBI website:
In the Chinese religions, there is no a single God to worship, there is no afterlife in the Western sense, and there is lack of social support system and coping mechanism as the religious people do not meet regularly. Different from all the mainstream religions in the West, Chinese religions are often associated with superstition as the saying of zongjiao mixin. To some Chinese individuals, being religious is equivalent of being superstitious, and death is a solution of all the problems and beginning of a new life. The Buddhist and Taoist belief in metempsychoses indicates the rebirth of the soul at death in another body, either human or animal.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2730492/
On the other hand the article says only about 8% of Chinese are religious so if the therapist in the OP article is right, it would seem that Chinese children on the whole would have a tougher time dealing with the sudden death of a close relative since it is unlikely their parents will bring God or heaven into the picture. That being the case I believe it would be an advantage for a Chinese person to be a Christian over being an atheist when it comes to helping distressed children dealing with the death of a close relative.
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Why not better off being a Muslim or even better being a Mazdayasnain?
That's the problem with any version of the "Believe in God as a simple cost-benefit analysis" argument going all the way back to Pascal's Wager.
"Which God" and "Believe how?" are not minor side discussions or nitpicks, they are core parts of the argument.
Every religion puts specifics on what God is and how he has to be worshipped. Yes, all of them.
Okay so I want to "hedge my bets" or teach my children to do the same. What do I do? Do I face Mecca, pick a rosary, slaughter a chicken, not eat pork, not eat meat on Friday, get circumcised, not get circumcised, what? And no I can't just do all of them and no I can't not do them either.
"God is this vague, non-picky thing who's going to be happy with any type of worship he gets" is no more logical or self evident then the God who has a specific set of rules to follow.
"Which God" and "Believe how?" are not minor side discussions or nitpicks, they are core parts of the argument.
Every religion puts specifics on what God is and how he has to be worshipped. Yes, all of them.
Okay so I want to "hedge my bets" or teach my children to do the same. What do I do? Do I face Mecca, pick a rosary, slaughter a chicken, not eat pork, not eat meat on Friday, get circumcised, not get circumcised, what? And no I can't just do all of them and no I can't not do them either.
"God is this vague, non-picky thing who's going to be happy with any type of worship he gets" is no more logical or self evident then the God who has a specific set of rules to follow.
welshdean
Michael McDonald 1967 - 2021
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Doc! Nice to see you back. You disappeared so quickly and for so long I feared something bad had happened to you. I must say you do seem in fine fettle, I hope that is the case, and full of your old 'fighting spirit'. Huzzah! 
In response to your OP, please may I refer you to the responses made to every other thread of yours as they are still relevant today as they were 5-6 or 7 years ago. You still quote-mine Ehrman, your doubling down on your circular reasoning and your still persisting with your 'evidence for God'. I'm proud of you.
Anyway, as I said, it's nice to see you back. But, can I please ask that we discuss something new, all of your old points (and this new, rehashing of them) have been soundly thrashed in each of their own threads and I've lost my 'Doc Bingo' cards.
In response to your OP, please may I refer you to the responses made to every other thread of yours as they are still relevant today as they were 5-6 or 7 years ago. You still quote-mine Ehrman, your doubling down on your circular reasoning and your still persisting with your 'evidence for God'. I'm proud of you.
Anyway, as I said, it's nice to see you back. But, can I please ask that we discuss something new, all of your old points (and this new, rehashing of them) have been soundly thrashed in each of their own threads and I've lost my 'Doc Bingo' cards.