UK - December 2019 General Election

[MarkCorrigan]

There is one silver lining and it's a small one.

At least the Tories are no longer supported by the utter lunatics in the DUP and can safely ignore the horrible badtards.

 

[Information Analyst]

I do not think you can necessarily count the votes of those voting Labour in the election as uniformly voting remain in any hypothetical 2nd referendum. I think it is very reasonable to conjecture that a 2nd referendum fought fiercely and simply by Boris Johnson et al would have resulted in another win for Leave. I also think an election trumps an advisory referendum (albeit one in which it was made explicit that the result WOULD be respected.) I say this as someone who voted remain.

It's still a useful metric. Sure, some Leavers will have voted Labour regardless, but the same is also true of the other parties in reverse. The vehemence with which the Leave side resists the idea of a second referendum pretty much confirms that they know they would lose one.

 

[Twoflower]

Yep

Be afraid be very afraid

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

It's a useful metric. Sure, some Leavers will still have voted Labour regardless, but the same is also true of the other parties in reverse. The vehemence with which the Leave side resists the idea of a second referendum pretty much confirms that they know they would lose one.

I don't think it confirms any such thing. Even if they thought they have a 95% chance of winning a second referendum, why would they want to take the 5% chance of losing? They have nothing to gain. To say a reluctance to support a second referendum is proof that they know they would lose is illogical.

 

[Vixen]

I think the UK is a system to be proud of. Parliament was at a standstill. And a snap election may have cleared the deadlock.

Nah. It highlights just how poor Jo Swinson's judgement is.

 

[Vixen]

Stay strong remainers! If one ignores certain facts and figures, then this election result has been a win for remain.

Go away.

 

[Vixen]

I'll reserve judgement until the final figures are in at some point, but it's worth noting that the General Election uses the archaic and frankly undemocratic single constituency FPTP system, whereas the referendum is basically "Which options gets the most votes across the country".

At the moment (going by The Guardian's election tracker), across the country Labour, SNP and Lib Dems combined has recieved 750,000 more votes than the Conservatives, yet the Tories have 32 more seats overall.

Edit: Add the Green Party votes to that trio of parties, and the figures goes above 1 million votes.

That's because in the natural order of things, middle class votes are worth 32 of those in the prole areas. It's only right, innit?

 

[Vixen]

I'm pleased to report that every one of these turncoats has been rejected by their electorate and thrown out of their jobs.

It will be great not to have to listen to MPs lecturing us that we are too stupid to know what we're voting for. I'll be particularly glad to hear much less from Soubry and Grieve from now on.

It should also serve as a warning to MPs not to leave the parties they were elected to serve. I expect that there will always be some privileged elitist arrogant MPs who think they know better than their voters. It would be nice if the government passed a new law to force a by election whenever a turncoat leaves or is permanently thrown out of their party, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

I can hear a crowing noise. Ah. It's ceptimus.

 

[Information Analyst]

I don't think it confirms any such thing. Even if they thought they have a 95% chance of winning a second referendum, why would they want to take the 5% chance of losing? They have nothing to gain. To say a reluctance to support a second referendum is proof that they know they would lose is illogical.

Not in the context of direct polling it isn't.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

IMO unless the Conservative Party splits for some reason, they'll be in power for the rest of my life (I'm 52). In this I'm assuming that there'll be Scottish independence.

Meh, A week is a long time in politics. If you had told Donald Dewar in 2001 that within 20 years there would only be one Labour MP in Scotland he'd have fallen over laughing.

 

[toto]

It's still a useful metric. Sure, some Leavers will have voted Labour regardless, but the same is also true of the other parties in reverse. The vehemence with which the Leave side resists the idea of a second referendum pretty much confirms that they know they would lose one.

Well, it's a moot point now I suppose, but I really do not agree with you that they knew they would lose. But I would acknowledge that a 2nd referendum would have been more risky than the split votes the General Election engendered.

 

[Darat]

Meh, A week is a long time in politics. If you had told Donald Dewar in 2001 that within 20 years there would only be one Labour MP in Scotland he'd have fallen over laughing.

All* my Scottish friends living in Scotland freely admit they changed from Labour to SNP because of in their words "the bribes". (None of them wanted Scottish independence, not communicated with any of them since the results so that may have changed.) So they could be switched back to Labour quite easily.




*Two, and if that isn't enough data to make my anecdote statistically relevant I don't know what would.

 

[Arcade22]

No one is going to be able to take you seriously when your prime minister apparently can't afford to get their hair done, and look like they just climbed out of bed even at black tie events.

What a bunch of degenerates.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I think it's worth pointing out that if you voted Conservative, you're probably a nonce.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

But it's not an issue now, is it?

Regardless of 'the will of the people' or other such bollocks, the liar in chief and his handlers have all the parliamentary votes to do just as they please now.

Sure, but my point was about the shifting arguments that I've seen several times today in several different venues. You get people trumpeting the fact that Brexit is vindicated because of the Tory majority, and when the counter-argument is made that when you look at the vote share that a minority of people who voted voted for parties who ran on a Leave ticket then suddenly nothing can be inferred from which party people voted for.

I don't think it's a good metric by which to judge because while Brexit was undoubtedly the biggest issue in this election, it certainly wasn't the only one and I think that the Lib Dems were bloody stupid to agree to the election (the SNP were probably thinking that Brexit would happen regardless and so looking to consolidate their own power in order to secede, and by the time Labour were called upon to voice an opinion it was a done deal so they had no choice but to agree or look weak and afraid) precisely because it conflates a lot of different issues down to one vote. But the point is that it's silly and hypocritical for people to class the result as being about Brexit when they think that that supports their "side" and then, when it's pointed out to them that actually it goes against their "side", to say "well, you can't actually use that metric in that way at all."

 

[KDLarsen]

No one is going to be able to take you seriously when your prime minister apparently can't afford to get their hair done, and look like they just climbed out of bed even at black tie events.

What a bunch of degenerates.

Even worse, it's deliberately done in order to keep up the appearance of an upper class twit, something the British apparently have a thing for. Several TV journalists have reported how he always ruffles the hair just before the camera is turned on.

 

[sphenisc]

No one is going to be able to take you seriously when your prime minister apparently can't afford to get their hair done, and look like they just climbed out of bed even at black tie events.

What a bunch of degenerates.

Well... that's not always the case. I mean personally, I'd take Finland seriously if their Prime Minister looked like she'd just climbed out of bed. But that might be due to me being a degenerate.

 

[Ambrosia]

IMO unless the Conservative Party splits for some reason, they'll be in power for the rest of my life (I'm 52). In this I'm assuming that there'll be Scottish independence.

Not a chance.

I grew up under Thatcher and after 1992 thought I'd never live to see anything other than a Tory government.

Things change. Its likely that a new Labour leader will turn up and take the party away from the harder left Corbyn agenda and back towards centre left. If they are charismatic and capable then anything can happen.

 

[The Don]

Even worse, it's deliberately done in order to keep up the appearance of an upper class twit, something the British apparently have a thing for. Several TV journalists have reported how he always ruffles the hair just before the camera is turned on.

Yes, the bumbling, affable toff spouting Latin tags plays better to the Great British Public than a political operator with a clear agenda.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Yes, the bumbling, affable toff spouting Latin tags plays better to the Great British Public than a political operator with a clear agenda.

When the going gets tough, the tough hide in fridges. - Mark Twain