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Is the narrow impeachment a tactical mistake by Democrats?

Belz... said:
I have too high an opinion of your intelligence to believe that you don't see the difference between a very likely hypothetical (he's ignored everyone else so far) with an outlandish one (the GOP magically turning on him).

But I suppose it's not as outlandish as it could be.
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You asked a hypothetical question, and then accused me of playing a hypothetical game for answering.

I think you owe me an apology.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
You're assuming any witnesses will be called in the Senate trial. The reports are that the Republicans are leaning against that and will instead have a single day's debate before ruling.
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I hope I'm not assuming anything. That's why I asked the question. That one-day thing I think was a trial balloon floated by McConnell. That doesn't mean it will not happen. Clinton's "trial" lasted a month without any witnesses being called. The government works in mysterious ways.
 
Stacyhs said:
This has been the classic Trump/GOP reaction to the subpoenas: drag it through the courts in an effort to stall as long as possible...hopefully until after the next election.
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You understand you get to do that, right?
 
acbytesla said:
ChristianProgressive said:
Because you are guilty. Innocent people don't plead the fifth.
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Sure they do.
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Nobody is listening but I'd like to point out the reason for the 4th and 5th Amendments isn't to protect the guilty, or even the little people. It's to stop those in power from using the government's power of investigation to root through their opponent's papers until they find something to hit them with.

This was a regular abuse by kings.

Here we have a whole series of claims of impeachable things going back 3 years, most stillborn.

Donald Trump may be a rogue, but you are supposed to deal with that at the ballot box.

I now return you all to arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin in service to pre-decided political goals that impeachment is just the cheesy cover story for, as it was for Bill Clinton 25 years ago, getting impeached for a "process crime", which the Republicans screamed was sufficient before but now is not worthy of such.

Both sides have been wiping their ass with the Constitution for 3 years now.

Or did I misspell 30 or 100 or 200?
 
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Beerina said:
Nobody is listening but I'd like to point out the reason for the 4th and 5th Amendments isn't to protect the guilty, or even the little people. It's to stop those in power from using the government's power of investigation to root through their opponent's papers until they find something to hit them with.

This was a regular abuse by kings.

Here we have a whole series of claims of impeachable things going back 3 years, most stillborn.

Donald Trump may be a rogue, but you are supposed to deal with that at the ballot box.
I now return you all to arguing about angels dancing on the head of a pin in service to pre-decided political goals that impeachment is just the cheesy cover story for, as it was for Bill Clinton 25 years ago, getting impeached for a "process crime", which the Republicans screamed was sufficient before but now is not worthy of such.



Both sides have been wiping their ass with the Constitution for 3 years now.

Or did I misspell 30 or 100 or 200?
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This is a nonsense rant. Has the Constitution been abused throughout history by members of all parties from the Federalists to the Whigs to the Democratic Republicans? Yes. But the idea that this impeachment is some political ploy and Trump's actions do not call, even demand his impeachment and removal is a pile of crap.

Ordinarily, I would agree that a fair election would be fine. But Trump is deliberately abusing the election process by using 391 million Federal dollars to help fund his campaign. If this act is allowed, what comes after?
 
It's seriously disheartening how many people think there is damage done that isn't an acceptable sacrifice at the alter of "but the other side did this..."
 
I repeat my point: the courts have already ruled in US v Nixon that the Executive MUST submit documents and testimony as required by Congress with only a few exceptions. There is no "blanket" executive privilege.

Every refused document, every hushed witness, is a further usurpation of Congress' lawful power to oversee the Executive Branch and is an impeachable offense.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
I repeat my point: the courts have already ruled in US v Nixon that the Executive MUST submit documents and testimony as required by Congress with only a few exceptions. There is no "blanket" executive privilege.

Every refused document, every hushed witness, is a further usurpation of Congress' lawful power to oversee the Executive Branch and is an impeachable offense.
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Oh lovely.

Who exactly is going to tell Trump that in a way that matters?

Congress says "You have to do this, the rule book says so."
Trump says "Go fish."

What happens then? Give me the steps.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Oh lovely.

Who exactly is going to tell Trump that in a way that matters?

Congress says "You have to do this, the rule book says so."
Trump says "Go fish."

What happens then? Give me the steps.
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They Impeach, and the Senate either removes him based on the factual charges, or commits Treason by violating their oath to the serve, protect, and uphold the Constitution.

We cannot look away any longer. It isn't just one Treasonous President, it's an entire party that has openly declared itself disloyal to the US.
 
Best impeachment we can come up with. Not worth a greater effort at this point. But Trump has potential! He is so inept he could be impeached again, say next August, dragging on to election day. "But her emails" will switch to BUT his impeachments!
 
ChristianProgressive said:
They Impeach, and the Senate either removes him based on the factual charges, or commits Treason by violating their oath to the serve, protect, and uphold the Constitution.
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1. No the Senate will do absolutely no such thing. McConnell isn't going to impeach Trump. This event will not occur.

2. Remove him how? Is Pelosi and AOC going to walk over and drag him by his ankles themselves?

The Supreme Court, the head law enforcement officer of the country, and the Senate all agree that a sitting President can do whatever he wants.

THERE IS NOBODY THAT IS GOING TO ENFORCE WHATEVER DECISION THE DEMOCRATS COME TO.

Stop writing stories that are basically "Well at some arbitrary point in the future 'the system' will just start working again."
 
JoeMorgue said:
1. No the Senate will do absolutely no such thing. McConnell isn't going to impeach Trump. This event will not occur.

2. Remove him how? Is Pelosi and AOC going to walk over and drag him by his ankles themselves?

The Supreme Court, the head law enforcement officer of the country, and the Senate all agree that a sitting President can do whatever he wants.

THERE IS NOBODY THAT IS GOING TO ENFORCE WHATEVER DECISION THE DEMOCRATS COME TO.

Stop writing stories that are basically "Well at some arbitrary point in the future 'the system' will just start working again."
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That is not what I said. I said either he is Impeached (by the House) and the Senate votes in accordance with their sworn oaths to the Constitution to remove him or they violate those oaths by voting to not remove him.

There is an objective reality in play here. The facts show that Trump must be removed to protect the separation of powers and Congress' lawful prerogatives. Any Senator who does not vote according to those facts is a Traitor.

The only issue then is what will the American people do about it?

Will they step up and remove a government that has utterly failed?

Or will they roll over and admit America has failed and become a fascist state?

I know what I hope they do. I also am very much afraid they don't have the courage to do it.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
1. No the Senate will do absolutely no such thing. McConnell isn't going to impeach Trump. This event will not occur.

2. Remove him how? Is Pelosi and AOC going to walk over and drag him by his ankles themselves?

The Supreme Court, the head law enforcement officer of the country, and the Senate all agree that a sitting President can do whatever he wants.

THERE IS NOBODY THAT IS GOING TO ENFORCE WHATEVER DECISION THE DEMOCRATS COME TO.

Stop writing stories that are basically "Well at some arbitrary point in the future 'the system' will just start working again."
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If the Senate votes to remove, Pence becomes president, and removes private citizen Donald Trump from the president's residence and workplace.

Unless you're saying Pence would refuse to enforce. In which case, he'd be removed as well, and his replacement would evict Trump and Pence both.

The trick is getting the Senate to vote to remove.
 
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theprestige said:
If the Senate votes to remove, Pence becomes president, and removes private citizen Donald Trump from the president's residence and workplace.

Unless you're saying Pence would refuse to enforce. In which case, he'd be removed as well, and his replacement would evict Trump and Pence both.

The trick is getting the Senate to vote to remove.
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The evidence shows that Pence was fully briefed in on what Trump has done. Therefore by not acting to stop it, he is also guilty of violating his Oaths.

Remove Trump and Pence must go too.

Hello President Pelosi!
 
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