UK - December 2019 General Election

[dudalb]

And let's not forget that it's basically a basic necessity to have "full-fibre broadband" connection today, really no different from having access to running water. According to Labour, British pupils apparently can't even do their homework because their crappy ADSL is just too slow.

Why not just say everything is a basic necessity, and therefore government should provide...and control...everything.

 

[ceptimus]

I think pretty much every public library in the UK offers free basic internet access. As does every Citizen's Advice Bureau. As do most JobCentres.

But I get your point and the irony behind it....

Many libraries have been closed. My local library closed about three years ago. There may be an advice bureau in the next town - I don't know. The next town is where the Jobcentre is - my town doesn't have one.

Not everyone loves in London, although as taxpayers we all subsidize London which gets far more than its fair share of per capita spending.

 

[The Don]

Many libraries have been closed. My local library closed about three years ago. There may be an advice bureau in the next town - I don't know. The next town is where the Jobcentre is - my town doesn't have one.

Not everyone loves in London, although as taxpayers we all subsidize London which gets far more than its fair share of per capita spending.

That's the effects of Austerity for you

 

[Darat]

I think pretty much every public library in the UK offers free basic internet access. As does every Citizen's Advice Bureau. As do most JobCentres.



But I get your point and the irony behind it....

Tory cuts have closed approximately 820 public libraries over the last 9 years.

How does someone on benefits afford to travel to a "local" library. My mother's village lost their local library the next nearest is 40 minute bus ride away, costing £3.80 for a return ticket.

 

[Vixen]

I don't know much about broadband connections. However, in England I was obliged to take a phone line with the Virgin Media subscription which cost a basic £10 pcm. I got the overall cost down to circa £44 (incl. VAT) before I left. Here, I didn't need a phoneline and the broadband wifi service provider, Elisa, charges me €14 pcm, which includes €4 pcm towards a three-year paying off of the wifibox and tv thingy (which I would have preferred to pay upfront - as I avoid credit - but it didn't ask me). Massive saving straight away for virtually the same service, although tv is generally dire.

Electricity: I had a standing direct debit of £30 pcm. Here, I was dreading the bill, having seen my parent's one in the remote countryside (however, they had the heating on 24 hours being elderly). I got the envelope yesterday and you could have knocked me down with a feather: just €20 for two months*, and this includes air-conditioning, sauna, underfloor bathroom heating, electric ceramic cooker (I had gas before), expensive fridge-freezer and dishwasher and a top of the range washing machine/dryer [the one in London often leaked so I used it as little as possible]. As you can imagine, I am delighted bearing in mind this same property would likely cost >£1m in central London. England has become such a rip-off country with cartels running the energy companies and the wifi services.

*I should mention that one of the 'culture shocks' of Brexodus was having TWO electricity contracts: one for the supply of the current (area infrastructure) and the other for the individual supply provider. The former cost €40 for the period but it still works out as a saving despite a massively increased electric usage as compared to England.

ETA Bearing in mind, in London we were out all day at work and now I work from home, so use far more overhead energy.

 

[Vixen]

Many libraries have been closed. My local library closed about three years ago. There may be an advice bureau in the next town - I don't know. The next town is where the Jobcentre is - my town doesn't have one.

Not everyone loves in London, although as taxpayers we all subsidize London which gets far more than its fair share of per capita spending.

When I signed on at the job centre a few years back, briefly in between jobs, to ensure NI credits, I often overheard desperate people begging not to be 'sanctioned' as they were unable to show they were applying for 'five jobs a day' or whatever it was, which you are obliged to register on the government Gateway webpage, which you have to log into. In reply, the civil servants were saying, ah but you could have used the one here (for which there is a queue and is grubby, nasty and you have to stand up using it) or the local library. I once used the library when my internet was down, or an internet café, which I stopped using when to my horror, I realised that users after you can surf the pages you have just been looking at, including the supposedly secure ones. It made me feel so sorry for the people who simply didn't have a laptop or a broadband contract. There was one guy on 'Benefits Britain' tv series who had been a key actor in Coronation Street. He didn't even know how to use the internet.

 

[KDLarsen]

My inner anorak is probably showing, but for Johnson to bang on about British potential and how leaving the EU will allow the government to impose 'Buy British'-rules, I find it slightly amusing that he's flying around in a French-built aircraft operated by a Danish airline.

(Pictures show him leaving OY-CLY, an ATR 72 built in Toulouse and operated by Air Alsie, and looking up the airplane in question shows he's been using it for the past few days)

 

[Darat]

My inner anorak is probably showing, but for Johnson to bang on about British potential and how leaving the EU will allow the government to impose 'Buy British'-rules, I find it slightly amusing that he's flying around in a French-built aircraft operated by a Danish airline.

(Pictures show him leaving OY-CLY, an ATR 72 built in Toulouse and operated by Air Alsie, and looking up the airplane in question shows he's been using it for the past few days)

I think you misunderstood Johnson and the Tories, those rules are for other people, not them.

 

[Arcade22]

The cruel irony is that our new and improved "universal benefit" that is meant to enfold all welfare payments such as unemployment requires internet access to claim.

Yeah but should the state make sure that every single home has access to fiber and pay for it all? That is what Labour has said they would do, apparently motivated by the fact that focus groups repeatedly complained about their slow internet connection.

I mean they even said they would prioritize the areas with worst internet connection speeds, instead of the areas where it would be the easiest and cheapest to deploy fiber connections to the most properties.

 

[Darat]

Yeah but should the state make sure that every single home has access to fiber and pay for it all? That is what Labour has said they would do, apparently motivated by the fact that focus groups repeatedly complained about their slow internet connection.

I mean they even said they would prioritize the areas with worst internet connection speeds, instead of the areas where it would be the easiest and cheapest to deploy fiber connections to the most properties.

Given how more efficient the large organisations that are in the control of the state, for example the various NHSs, the prisons and so on compared to the private sector it will be cheaper to have a "not for profit" state organisation to cable the country up than a quasi-private company such as Openreach.

 

[The Don]

Given how more efficient the large organisations that are in the control of the state, for example the various NHSs, the prisons and so on compared to the private sector it will be cheaper to have a "not for profit" state organisation to cable the country up than a quasi-private company such as Openreach.

Take a look at large government-run IT projects and what a pig's ear has been made of pretty much every one*. I seriously doubt that they'll be able to deliver, not least because they'll be managing external suppliers rather than delivering the whole thing themselves.

* - which is not to say that large monolithic private IT projects aren't also a complete mess but they're usually orders of magnitude smaller in size and failure is usually much less public

 

[Camillus]

Take a look at large government-run IT projects and what a pig's ear has been made of pretty much every one*. I seriously doubt that they'll be able to deliver, not least because they'll be managing external suppliers rather than delivering the whole thing themselves.

* - which is not to say that large monolithic private IT projects aren't also a complete mess but they're usually orders of magnitude smaller in size and failure is usually much less public

All the large "government run" IT projects that I am aware of haven't been government run at all - they've been government funded projects handed to private IT firms who have consistently failed to deliver a system that works.

If anything, the history of large IT projects in the UK proves that private companies are ******* useless at doing anything except lining their shareholders pockets.

 

[The Don]

All the large "government run" IT projects that I am aware of haven't been government run at all - they've been government funded projects handed to private IT firms who have consistently failed to deliver a system that works.

If anything, the history of large IT projects in the UK proves that private companies are ******* useless at doing anything except lining their shareholders pockets.

The government has managed the ones I have been involved with (MOD Procurement, Pensions, NIRS, DLA, NHS) as well as providing the funding. You're right that the delivery (or otherwise) was contracted out, but there was always a government management layer in place.

 

[Darat]

Take a look at large government-run IT projects and what a pig's ear has been made of pretty much every one*. I seriously doubt that they'll be able to deliver, not least because they'll be managing external suppliers rather than delivering the whole thing themselves.



* - which is not to say that large monolithic private IT projects aren't also a complete mess but they're usually orders of magnitude smaller in size and failure is usually much less public

IT projects are always late and never deliver what they are meant to. That's a fundamental law of the universe!

And look for how long BT/BT openreach have been promising connectivity. To date the evidence is that it can't or won't achieve the goal.

 

[jimbob]

Meanwhile - not mainstream media, but it does contain the links and footage to support its narrative on how the fake news claiming the story about LGI and the bed crisis was spread.



https://dorseteye.com/strap-yoursel...e-political-stories-of-the-century-is-brewing

The original facebook post was from someone whose son is friends with Matt Hancock

 

[Rolfe]

Hmmm. She said her account had been hacked and she'd had death threats and it was all so terrible boo hoo. Maybe her son hacked her account? (Unless her son being friends with Matt Hancock is also fake news...)

This is a very good account of what happened.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/12/10/...atomy-of-an-election-disinformation-campaign/

And another one.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...al-sleeping-floor-boris-johnson-a9240926.html

This is also good and the registration can be circumvented by using "view page source".

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/world/europe/sick-uk-boy-boris-johnson.html

There's an interesting point at the end of that one about how the Yorkshire Post, the newspaper which originally broke the story and which had checked it properly before doing that, was subsequently bombarded by angry readers who were furious that the paper had published "fake news" - after believing the online lies about it.

Direct link to the Yorkshire Post's follow-up story here.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...ment-fact-checked-journalism-yep-says-1337649

 

[ponderingturtle]

When I signed on at the job centre a few years back, briefly in between jobs, to ensure NI credits, I often overheard desperate people begging not to be 'sanctioned' as they were unable to show they were applying for 'five jobs a day' or whatever it was, which you are obliged to register on the government Gateway webpage, which you have to log into. In reply, the civil servants were saying, ah but you could have used the one here (for which there is a queue and is grubby, nasty and you have to stand up using it) or the local library. I once used the library when my internet was down, or an internet café, which I stopped using when to my horror, I realised that users after you can surf the pages you have just been looking at, including the supposedly secure ones. It made me feel so sorry for the people who simply didn't have a laptop or a broadband contract. There was one guy on 'Benefits Britain' tv series who had been a key actor in Coronation Street. He didn't even know how to use the internet.

Hence why we need to keep the internet limited to those worthy of actually using such services.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

BBC political editor Laura Kuenessberg has violated OFCOM policy by reporting on the results of both parties allegedly breaking the law by already having looked at postal votes. She also didn't present this as the illegal act that it is, and may have broken the law herself in doing so.

Here's the video: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204770258327887872

Here's the OFCOM policy: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204799972232908803

And here's the electoral commission detailing how she herself may have broken the law: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204790546675437573

 

[Andy_Ross]

I think pretty much every public library in the UK offers free basic internet access. As does every Citizen's Advice Bureau. As do most JobCentres.

But I get your point and the irony behind it....

Most villages and lots of towns do not have a library, citizens advice or Jobcentre anymore.

Double irony.

 

[Vixen]

BBC political editor Laura Kuenessberg has violated OFCOM policy by reporting on the results of both parties allegedly breaking the law by already having looked at postal votes. She also didn't present this as the illegal act that it is, and may have broken the law herself in doing so.

Here's the video: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204770258327887872

Here's the OFCOM policy: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204799972232908803

And here's the electoral commission detailing how she herself may have broken the law: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204790546675437573

I suggest people report this to the police.

It may be an offence to communicate any information obtained at postal vote opening sessions, including about votes cast, before a poll has closed. Anyone with information to suggest this has happened should report it immediately to the police.

ibid

I really like Laura Kuennsburg (_sp?) and think she is an excellent political reporter. However, she does like to demonstrate insider knowledge, and I think this might be her undoing.