Atheism - Obvious Default?

[Cheetah]

I think religion is like pareidolia, but instead of faces we see minds as well where none exist. Just as your mind can find faces in the clouds it can find intent behind random happenings.

 

[Apathia]

I think religion is like pareidolia, but instead of faces we see minds as well where none exist. Just as your mind can find faces in the clouds it can find intent behind random happenings.

"The Fickle Finger of Fate"

"Just my karma, as luck would have it, God intervened."

 

[theprestige]

"Religion" is defined by the Oxford Dictionary as: "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. "ideas about the relationship between science and religion".

So, your use of "religion" might be correct at a colloquial level but no more than that. It is a "theism".

Yes, thank you. I'm aware.

I'm trying to get at an idea that I think is important. If I had a better word for it, I'd use that word. I'm talking about something I can best describe as "religious behavior": dogma, persecution, inquisition, schism, etc. With respect to the Oxford Dictionary, I think humans can make a religion out of just about anything. It doesn't have to have a supernatural focus. Communists in the Soviet Union are a good (extreme) example of what I'm talking about. Even without a god, they still found something to worship, and still ended up exhibiting all the horrible excesses of religion. People make a fetish of their beliefs, even when those beliefs don't include gods. I don't have a better word for this than "religion". If you do, it would be helpful to me if you shared it.

 

[Bikewer]

I’ve often maintained that UFO, Bigfoot, and various conspiracy-theory believers raise these beliefs to the level of religions.
No evidence to the contrary will be accepted......

 

[theprestige]

I’ve often maintained that UFO, Bigfoot, and various conspiracy-theory believers raise these beliefs to the level of religions.
No evidence to the contrary will be accepted......

I'd forgotten about the quality of blind faith that characterizes religious behavior, even in the absence of a god.

 

[Thor 2]

I'd forgotten about the quality of blind faith that characterizes religious behavior, even in the absence of a god.

I'd be interested to learn about this blind faith in the absence of a god idea. There was a hint about this in The Big Dog's whimpering's some time back. He was suggesting the existence of a sort of atheist bible, in the writings of communist leaders. Didn't think much of the idea myself as it was a poor analogy. Communism is not an ideology based on faith but an ideology based on reason - whether you agree with the reasoning or not.

 

[arthwollipot]

theprestige is far from the first person to draw a comparison between communism and religion.

 

[Thor 2]

This I know. Lack of cognitive ability seems endemic at times.

 

[Tassman]

Yes, thank you. I'm aware.

I'm trying to get at an idea that I think is important. If I had a better word for it, I'd use that word. I'm talking about something I can best describe as "religious behavior": dogma, persecution, inquisition, schism, etc. With respect to the Oxford Dictionary, I think humans can make a religion out of just about anything. It doesn't have to have a supernatural focus. Communists in the Soviet Union are a good (extreme) example of what I'm talking about. Even without a god, they still found something to worship, and still ended up exhibiting all the horrible excesses of religion. People make a fetish of their beliefs, even when those beliefs don't include gods. I don't have a better word for this than "religion". If you do, it would be helpful to me if you shared it.

It's just not the issue you perceive it to be. I don’t have a non-belief in deities so much as an indifference to the notion of them existing. That’s hardly a religious thing any more than my non-belief in leprechauns or unicorns is a religious belief – colloquial or otherwise.

 

[ahhell]

theprestige is far from the first person to draw a comparison between communism and religion.

This I know. Lack of cognitive ability seems endemic at times.

It certainly does.

It's just not the issue you perceive it to be. I don’t have a non-belief in deities so much as an indifference to the notion of them existing. That’s hardly a religious thing any more than my non-belief in leprechauns or unicorns is a religious belief – colloquial or otherwise.

This is an odd response. Seems like you're saying, religious like fervor for non-supernatural world views isn't a problem at all because you personally don't have religious like fervor.

Edit to add.
Lets remove the idea from the political.

What would you call it when folks devote themselves or adhere to dogmas with religious like fervor when the dogma isn't religuous? Anti-vaxxers, truthers, alt-med supporters, big foot believers, ancient alien/ancient advanced civilization enthusiasts? What is that?

 

[Tassman]

It certainly does.



This is an odd response. Seems like you're saying, religious like fervor for non-supernatural world views isn't a problem at all because you personally don't have religious like fervor.

No. It's just not an either/or thing. I'm indifferent to religion.

What would you call it when folks devote themselves or adhere to dogmas with religious like fervor when the dogma isn't religuous? Anti-vaxxers, truthers, alt-med supporters, big foot believers, ancient alien/ancient advanced civilization enthusiasts? What is that?

Ill-informed fanaticism.

 

[Thor 2]

No. It's just not an either/or thing. I'm indifferent to religion.

Well that's good in a way but maybe hard to maintain that indifference, when the religious are screwing things up for you, people you care about, and the planet we call home.

 

[Tassman]

Well that's good in a way but maybe hard to maintain that indifference, when the religious are screwing things up for you, people you care about, and the planet we call home.

Oh, indeed! I'm indifferent to 'religion' as a concept, NOT indifferent to religionists trying to impose their fiction-based values on the rest of us.

 

[Thor 2]

Oh, indeed! I'm indifferent to 'religion' as a concept, NOT indifferent to religionists trying to impose their fiction-based values on the rest of us.

What exactly is the relevance of this in the discussion of whether atheism is the obvious default?

 

[Tassman]

What exactly is the relevance of this in the discussion of whether atheism is the obvious default?

The relevance is that believers don’t accept atheism as the “obvious default” and attempt to legislate their values on the rest of us.

 

[Thor 2]

The relevance is that believers don’t accept atheism as the “obvious default” and attempt to legislate their values on the rest of us.

So your position as being indifferent to religion somehow illustrates this?

 

[Tassman]

So your position as being indifferent to religion somehow illustrates this?

I think so. The only relevance to atheism as the default position is if it impacts upon our lives via religious values being imposed.

 

[ahhell]

So your position as being indifferent to religion somehow illustrates this?

I'm glad I'm not the only one not following Tassman's logic.

 

[Thor 2]

I think so. The only relevance to atheism as the default position is if it impacts upon our lives via religious values being imposed.

I'm glad I'm not the only one not following Tassman's logic.

 

[Tassman]

I'm not sure what your problem is. I'm in agreement that atheism is the default position. The only issue is when non-atheists dispute this self-evident fact - as I've indicated.