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Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking

theprestige said:
I'd say it's always important to be fair, but okay, sure. Sarcasm noted. If zooterkin's point was simply to be unfair to Donald Trump, nothing more needs to be said. The thing speaks for itself.
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Donald Trump has a habit of "not really knowing well" certain people that he has previously claimed to know well. His campaign chairman, his lawyer, etc. etc.
 
Vixen said:
For example, the analyst in the youtube above which peeps have condemned without bothering to watch it, succintly points out that Price Andrew in saying he was being honourable (when visiting JE for four days in NY) is saying he still has enough respect for Epstein despite his conviction for underage sex and prostitution procuring.
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And? If he considered him a friend, that wouldn't be surprising. A reasonable person might not believe the crimes were really that bad if the other person isn't still in prison.
Likewise his look of anxiety every time Maitlis mentions 'party' when there is nothing inherently negative about the word.
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This is where we enter the fantasy world of mind-reading.
Body language can indeed be admissible in court. Police witnesses are trained to be entiely objective. In their notes they will write down appearance of suspect, date, time, demeanour (for example, agitated, confused, drunk, etc), what they say, and so on.

It immediately becomes clear that body language can be objective evidence in court. For example, a policeman in a famous case, testified that when he and a colleague arrived at the scene of a crime, the two persons hanging around outside 'were visibly surprised' to see them.
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Yes, a police officer can testify to what they observe, but a decent defense attorney will not allow them to state someone else's state of mind as fact. In your example, if being surprised was at all important, no lawyer would allow a cop to say they were actually surprised but rather at most that they seemed surprised. Why? Because interpretations of body language are not acceptable as "objective evidence."

Personally, I have no doubt that Andrew is at least a creep, if not a predator. However, claiming body language as proof of anything is nonsense, especially if one is being interviewed on a subject that would be uncomfortable for anyone.
 
Babbylonian said:
And? If he considered him a friend, that wouldn't be surprising. A reasonable person might not believe the crimes were really that bad if the other person isn't still in prison.
This is where we enter the fantasy world of mind-reading.

Yes, a police officer can testify to what they observe, but a decent defense attorney will not allow them to state someone else's state of mind as fact. In your example, if being surprised was at all important, no lawyer would allow a cop to say they were actually surprised but rather at most that they seemed surprised. Why? Because interpretations of body language are not acceptable as "objective evidence."

Personally, I have no doubt that Andrew is at least a creep, if not a predator. However, claiming body language as proof of anything is nonsense, especially if one is being interviewed on a subject that would be uncomfortable for anyone.
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<sigh> Nobody claimed it was 'proof'. Merely informative.
 
carlitos said:
Donald Trump has a habit of "not really knowing well" certain people that he has previously claimed to know well. His campaign chairman, his lawyer, etc. etc.
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This is true. I think that given what we know about Trump, it's plausible that he doesn't know these people very well at all, and also his statements about how well (or not) he knows someone don't have much evidentiary value.
 
Top poker players are keen students of body language, looking for 'tells'. A classic 'tell' is where a player scratches their nose when bluffing.

Bill Clinton's tell:

"There is one scientific proof that can be relied with accuracy: Scientists at the Smell and Taste Treatment & Research Foundation found that when you lie, chemicals known as catecholamines are released, causing the tissue inside the nose to swell. Special imaging cameras showed that intentional lying causes an increase in blood pressure, which inflates the nose and causes the nerve endings in the nose to tingle, which makes you want to rub your nose briskly to get rid of the itch.

American neurologist Dr. Alan Hirsch and psychiatrist Charles Wolf did an extensive analysis of Bill Clinton’s testimony on his affair with Monica Lewinsky, and found that he touched his nose about 26 times when lying. Conversely, Bill Clinton did not touch his nose at all when he answered truthfully."
 
theprestige said:
This is true. I think that given what we know about Trump, it's plausible that he doesn't know these people very well at all, and also his statements about how well (or not) he knows someone don't have much evidentiary value.
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I agree with this wholeheartedly.

ETA - Donald Trump has a 'tell' as well. When he recounts a fictional story about what someone told him, he tends to use the word "sir."
 
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Checkmite said:
Your point is itself certainly fair; but some things are independently implausible, Trump's self-serving denialism notwithstanding. Epstein was a professional money donor and hobnobber; he met with rich and famous (and not-so) people all the time because that was his business. It is not plausible that every person he met with, even several times, was truly a friend of his; likewise it's not plausible that every person he met with, even several times, even at his island home, was provided with an underage prostitute, or even was aware that's what Epstein was about.

I don't know if Prince Andrew was a donor the same way Epstein was; but his special station is much the same in that his life largely consists of perpetually attending functions and meeting any number of people, sometimes more than once, who don't honestly qualify as "friends" or even "associates" really.
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Prince Andrew was most unlikely to be a donor, more likely a recipient of money from whomever was prepared to pay to be associated with him. His allowance may be substantial compared with the average person's salary, but it's peanuts compared to the wealth of the people he likes to hang out with.
 
GlennB said:
Top poker players are keen students of body language, looking for 'tells'. A classic 'tell' is where a player scratches their nose when bluffing.

Bill Clinton's tell:

"There is one scientific proof that can be relied with accuracy: Scientists at the Smell and Taste Treatment & Research Foundation found that when you lie, chemicals known as catecholamines are released, causing the tissue inside the nose to swell. Special imaging cameras showed that intentional lying causes an increase in blood pressure, which inflates the nose and causes the nerve endings in the nose to tingle, which makes you want to rub your nose briskly to get rid of the itch.

American neurologist Dr. Alan Hirsch and psychiatrist Charles Wolf did an extensive analysis of Bill Clinton’s testimony on his affair with Monica Lewinsky, and found that he touched his nose about 26 times when lying. Conversely, Bill Clinton did not touch his nose at all when he answered truthfully."
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My friend Nikki had a boyfriend who cheated on her, and she deduced it entirely from a body language tell. When he was with the other girl he'd put his lips on hers for a long time, and also his hands kept touching her torso and butt. These subtle clues convey a wealth of information unconsciously broadcast through body language, if one knows how to read it.
 
TragicMonkey said:
My friend Nikki had a boyfriend who cheated on her, and she deduced it entirely from a body language tell. When he was with the other girl he'd put his lips on hers for a long time, and also his hands kept touching her torso and butt. These subtle clues convey a wealth of information unconsciously broadcast through body language, if one knows how to read it.
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The tell of the husband of a friend of Mrs Analyst's seems to be the amount of ear-rings and false nails to be found in his car.
 
Vixen said:
Shows how ignorant you are.

(a) body language is real

(b) a paedophile is a person attracted to little children.
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(a) Body language is so generalized and conditional that it is about as useful as astrology.

(b) Yes. Whatever. Terminology is much more important than criminal conduct.
 
GlennB said:
Top poker players are keen students of body language, looking for 'tells'. A classic 'tell' is where a player scratches their nose when bluffing.

Bill Clinton's tell:

"There is one scientific proof that can be relied with accuracy: Scientists at the Smell and Taste Treatment & Research Foundation found that when you lie, chemicals known as catecholamines are released, causing the tissue inside the nose to swell. Special imaging cameras showed that intentional lying causes an increase in blood pressure, which inflates the nose and causes the nerve endings in the nose to tingle, which makes you want to rub your nose briskly to get rid of the itch.

American neurologist Dr. Alan Hirsch and psychiatrist Charles Wolf did an extensive analysis of Bill Clinton’s testimony on his affair with Monica Lewinsky, and found that he touched his nose about 26 times when lying. Conversely, Bill Clinton did not touch his nose at all when he answered truthfully."
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It also causes stress. Border guards will be suspicious of anyone looking super-nervous.

However, it doesn't follow that all super-nervous people have something to hide.
 
autumn1971 said:
(a) Body language is so generalized and conditional that it is about as useful as astrology.

(b) Yes. Whatever. Terminology is much more important than criminal conduct.
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I disagree with you on both counts. Body language can be revealing.

If it is the case Prince Andrew is lying and did meet Virginia Roberts, it does not make him a paedophile. Being an oversexed skirt-chaser is not illegal.
 
theprestige said:
This is true. I think that given what we know about Trump, it's plausible that he doesn't know these people very well at all, and also his statements about how well (or not) he knows someone don't have much evidentiary value.
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I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but isn't an alternative version of the highilighted text "are lies?"
 
I wonder "if" Prince Andrew met this girl in the photo. That's a real head-scratcher.

[IMGw=200]https://i.imgur.com/EYeGsxm.jpg[/IMGw]
 
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