Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Gamolon]

Which leads to the question when the karma Angels create these injustices are they punished for their mistakes?

Believe it or not the spirit world say that there are another species of beings we call angels that never incarnate and some of them are angels of karma.
They have the final say in our evolution, and decide what experiences we need for our soul to progress. They are not concerned if that experience is harsh as they know it will all be for the ultimate good.

According to Scorpion, the Angels of Karma can see exactly what experiences a spirit will have in a given incarnation. The Angels know what experiences (good or bad) a spirit needs to evolve and chooses which incarnation the spirit will go to.

It's not a mistake, but part of the grand plan.

 

[Scorpion]

According to Scorpion, the Angels of Karma can see exactly what experiences a spirit will have in a given incarnation. The Angels know what experiences (good or bad) a spirit needs to evolve and chooses which incarnation the spirit will go to.

It's not a mistake, but part of the grand plan.

If you take the long view, everything may work out for the ultimate good. But it takes as many as thousands of lifetimes. According to the spirits, every action and every reaction to our actions must be accounted for before we are ultimately free of the cycle of rebirths.

The story of Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita tells of a great civil war, and a warrior despairs of the horror of families fighting each other. But Krishna shows him the countless lifetimes, to make him realize everything ultimately works itself out for the ultimate good.
The body is just a cloak we wear for a short time, but the spirit within learns from every experience, and takes a new body for more opportunities to advance. So if we are killed in battle it may seem terrible from the human point of view, but over eternity it matters less.

 

[Gamolon]

That's a tragic tale, and I don't have an answer for it.

You keep avoiding the questions Scorpion.

Is it true that you believe the Angels of Karma selected the incarnation for that spirit/girl, knowing full well what that spirit/girl would experience because that spirit/girl needed to go through that experience to evolve further?

Isn't that right?

 

[Scorpion]

You keep avoiding the questions Scorpion.

Is it true that you believe the Angels of Karma selected the incarnation for that spirit/girl, knowing full well what that spirit/girl would experience because that spirit/girl needed to go through that experience to evolve further?

Isn't that right?

The angels of karma cannot control us. That is the whole point of being incarnated. So that we can learn ourselves by trial and error. I think the angels do know what will happen to us in the future, but they cannot prevent bad actions, because its part of humanities growing pains. Some people are victims of bad actions, but they will be compensated in future lives.

 

[Gamolon]

I think the angels do know what will happen to us in the future, but they cannot prevent bad actions, because its part of humanities growing pains.

Right.

You believe that the Angels of Karma chose the incarnation for the spirit/girl, knowing exactly what suffering that would be experienced, all because the Angels of Karma decided that particular spirit/girl NEEDED to experience that suffering in order to evolve to the next level.

Is that correct?

 

[Gamolon]

The angels of karma cannot control us.

Correct.

The incarnation does. Each incarnation's life story is already written and just needs a spirit to be placed within as a main character to experience all the plots and subplots. The placement of a spirit into a particular incarnation is determined by the Angels of Karma and what they think the spirit needs to experience in order to evolve. They then match that spirit to the incarnation.

Is that correct Scorpion?

 

[Scorpion]

Right.

You believe that the Angels of Karma chose the incarnation for the spirit/girl, knowing exactly what suffering that would be experienced, all because the Angels of Karma decided that particular spirit/girl NEEDED to experience that suffering in order to evolve to the next level.

Is that correct?

I can't say. Its impossible to know exactly what the angels of karma will do.

 

[steenkh]

The angels of karma cannot control us.

I think the angels do know what will happen to us in the future […]

If they know what will happen in the future, they do not need to control us. All they need is to select they right incarnation so that the right amount of suffering is inflicted on the pre souls.

You cannot escape the fact that according to your faith, the angels can choose to let souls be incarnated to be victims of pedophiles, tortured, burned to death and so on. Your feeble excuse for this is that we will be compensated in a later incarnation.

 

[Gamolon]

I can't say. Its impossible to know exactly what the angels of karma will do.

Oh really? You had no problem telling everyone what you supposedly knew as fact just recently, but now you DON'T know? Take a look at your past quotes below Scorpion. Are you now feigning ignorance on the subject because you're backed into a corner?

All this is administrated by the angels of karma who determine what is best for us from behind the scenes. They guide us to an incarnation that suits or spiritual needs, even if the life is hard. The angels know its for our ultimate good, so they are indifferent to our sufferings.

The angels of karma determine what we deserve and send us into lives where we reap what we have sowed.

There has to be some kind of administration to control our karma, and it is the angels job. God remains perfect above everything.

 

[Gamolon]

That's a tragic tale, and I don't have an answer for it.

You don't?

The angels of karma determine what we deserve and send us into lives where we reap what we have sowed.

 

[JayUtah]

The angels of karma cannot control us.

Except in your other thread you clearly stated that the process of reincarnation was controlled by these so-called angels of karma. Then you ran away from that thread when you couldn't describe how their discretion applied. And if they have no discretion, they have no control. And here we are, having the same debate all over again because you don't have any of the answers but won't admit it.

I think the angels do know what will happen to us in the future, but they cannot prevent bad actions, because its part of humanities growing pains.

They can see the future but have no ability to affect it in any way. That means they're entirely useless. Yet it is upon these completely ineffectual goldbricks that you place all the faith your religion demands. As have many other theologians before you, you are stumbling headlong into the inherent dilemma of predestination.

Some people are victims of bad actions, but they will be compensated in future lives.

Why bother? I can't remember any of my past lives. So I have no way of knowing whether any joy or prosperity I enjoy in this life are the consequences of my own actions or are owed to me because of some horrible crime someone else committed against me unjustly in a past life. You're trying to cobble up a moral-sounding religion that avoids all the facts inherent in the classic theology problem of evil.

I can't say. Its impossible to know exactly what the angels of karma will do.

Why not? Don't they obey any set of rules that your precious mediums can determine? No, of course not, because you can't tell the true mediums (who might actually know) from the fake mediums (who just make it all up to suit ad hoc conditions).

Besides, who cares what they want to do? You say they're in charge, but you concede they have no discretionary power to affect anything.

Your religion is patently self-contradictory and really, really pointless. You can't even give me a coherent summary of its core beliefs. They change every time I ask.

 

[JayUtah]

If they know what will happen in the future, they do not need to control us. All they need is to select they right incarnation so that the right amount of suffering is inflicted on the pre souls.

See, for me that's a form of control. I don't see any difference between assigning someone to a foreseen life as a pedophile's victim and assigning them to any other kind of life and then subsequently deciding they need to be victimized.

Your feeble excuse for this is that we will be compensated in a later incarnation.

It's just the same old problem of evil that attends every religion supposedly headed up by unquestionably fair and moral deities. Except in this case the standard remedy is undermined by forgetting past lives. There's no sense of fairness if the subject's mind can simply be erased. No need to remedy anything. The soul just picks up and moves on with a fresh start.

 

[Darat]

And don't forget Scorpion has now also claimed not even the spirits remember their past lives!

 

[8enotto]

I probed this with Sr Scorpion to a bigger question. What happens to souls that achieve grand finale? What do they get?

He answers they get dissolved into the greater power and all that work becomes...

Pretty much for nothing. No reward as humans love rewards. Back to the primordial soup to start over.

As much as an ordeal a soul suffers to become perfect in this faith there is no glory to achieve.
That is a hard sell to most of the faithful.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

They can see the future but have no ability to affect it in any way.

It's the precognition equivalent of a subscription to TV Guide.

 

[JayUtah]

And don't forget Scorpion has now also claimed not even the spirits remember their past lives!

Which contrasts with his earlier claim that a spirit remembers its most recent morality. But apparently if you want to be a spirit guide in your intermortal periods, you can pretend to be a different "persona" and mess with the mortals, without the Angels of Karma getting on your case. Trickster spirits are allowed.

In theory, under the old model, the spirit could have said, "Gee, getting raped and murdered when I was five years old sucked in my last life. I wanna go again." From what Scorpion has told us today, that spirit is more likely to be reincarnated as a billionaire playboy who gets to live a long, healthy life on a private tropical island. Contrast that with the billionaire who dies, remembers a long happy life, and wants to go again. But what will the Angels of Karma do? We don't know, says Scorpion. They might make the billionaire reincarnate as a pedophile, or as a square of lightly soiled toilet paper. Or, because there's nothing inherently unkarmic about being a billionaire, he might get to be one again.

So the Angels of Karma are responsible for making sure people get recompense in later lives for injustice suffered in past lives. Only the person receiving the recompense doesn't know what it is. And apparently the Angels can do this without conforming to any discernible rules -- including the rule that says they should right the wrongs of past lives by setting people up for good new ones.

This gobbledy-gook cannot possibly be true. It can't even manage to be logically consistent from day to day or minute to minute. By the way, in case anyone is interested, from my experience this is exactly what it's like to deal with a schizophrenic patient on a daily basis.

 

[Thor 2]

I probed this with Sr Scorpion to a bigger question. What happens to souls that achieve grand finale? What do they get?

He answers they get dissolved into the greater power and all that work becomes...

Pretty much for nothing. No reward as humans love rewards. Back to the primordial soup to start over.

As much as an ordeal a soul suffers to become perfect in this faith there is no glory to achieve.
That is a hard sell to most of the faithful.

Your telling me that's a hard sell!

So the individual's ordeal doesn't result in a reward for the individual?

Does the "greater power" gain something and become greater as a result of these individuals contributions I wonder? The further we go on the more questions come to the fore.

Although not a medium himself Scorpion has a remarkable grasp on the essence of the spirit world. Seems to be able to make up provide answers on the run when tricky questions are presented.

 

[Axxman300]

If you take the long view, everything may work out for the ultimate good. But it takes as many as thousands of lifetimes. According to the spirits, every action and every reaction to our actions must be accounted for before we are ultimately free of the cycle of rebirths.

The story of Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita tells of a great civil war, and a warrior despairs of the horror of families fighting each other. But Krishna shows him the countless lifetimes, to make him realize everything ultimately works itself out for the ultimate good.
The body is just a cloak we wear for a short time, but the spirit within learns from every experience, and takes a new body for more opportunities to advance. So if we are killed in battle it may seem terrible from the human point of view, but over eternity it matters less.

This post right here, the content is the exact kind of thing that drove me to rethink the things I believed and forced me to be a skeptic. The reasoning has no credible center.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

This post right here, the content is the exact kind of thing that drove me to rethink the things I believed and forced me to be a skeptic. The reasoning has no credible center.

"Accept your lot it will all be okay in the next life/lives" always struck me as transparently self serving.

 

[steenkh]

"Accept your lot it will all be okay in the next life/lives" always struck me as transparently self serving.

Yes, and you can be a complete bastard, because you know it is your destiny to educate those poor souls that you choose as victims. and in any case, you can't help it, because the Angels of Karma chose you because they knew your destiny.