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House Impeachment Inquiry

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Armitage72 said:
Devin Nunes actually compared Trump's actions to George Washington.

"I would remind my friends on the other side of the aisle that our first president, George Washington, directed his own diplomatic channels to secure a treaty with Great Britain. If my Democratic colleagues were around in 1794, they’d probably want to impeach him, too."
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Suddenly said:
If you consider the audience he's really speaking to, he's really good at it. That Washington thing is brilliant in that regard. Art, really.
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Exactly !

As far as the Republicans are concerned, and low information voters, he's the one of, if not the, greatest Presidents of all time.
 
US Ambassador Gordon Sondland tells impeachment inquiry Trump directed pressure on Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden
Sondland also implicates US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former National Security Adviser John Bolton
"They knew what we were doing and why," he says in his opening statement
He also says the president wanted diplomacy with Ukraine being led by his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-50476322
 
Captain_Swoop said:
US Ambassador Gordon Sondland tells impeachment inquiry Trump directed pressure on Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden
Sondland also implicates US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former National Security Adviser John Bolton
"They knew what we were doing and why," he says in his opening statement
He also says the president wanted diplomacy with Ukraine being led by his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-50476322
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Clearly he's a liar. After all, he changed his story completely once he realised that he might end up being charged with perjury.

Because of that, all of his testimony can be safely discounted :rolleyes:
 
Craig4 said:
https://www.newsweek.com/laura-ingr...utenant-says-he-was-blinded-spotlight-1472858

Laura Ingram is truly Trumptrash of the highest order. She should learn her place seeing as she's what you get when you put a $100 bill on a fishing line and troll it through a trailer park. Jesus, these scum aren't even people.
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From that article is an interesting quote which indicates to me what the Trump Administration's next step is likely to be with respect to Vindman:

Later on Ingraham's Tuesday show, former deputy attorney general John Yoo suggested that Vindman could be guilty of "espionage" and might be a double agent.
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Expect those proceedings to begin in parallel with the impeachment so as to try to undermine his testimony.
 
The Don said:
Exactly !

As far as the Republicans are concerned, and low information voters, he's the one of, if not the, greatest Presidents of all time.
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I keep seeing how Sondland's testimony is to Trump what John Dean was to Nixon. The problem is, there was no FOX News back then. There was no incestuous relationship between the GOP and the Falwell type evangelicals back then. Those happened as a result of Watergate specifically top prevent another republican to suffer that fate.

Want to know why I don't think Trump or the republicans will suffer real consequences for this: Iran-Contra. Hell, Watergate itself blew over by the time Carter took office. no one served more than 4 years, if I remember correctly, and they were all just low level operatives. None of the shot callers went away.
 
The Don said:
Sondland's testimony would appear to be damning:



Then again, perhaps it's just my left wing bias because the Republicans seem completely unconcerned:



So maybe it isn't the smoking gun that I thought it was. :o
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Obviously Giuliani went rogue.
 
The lawyer for the GOP keeps getting consistently worse in my opinion. I have a hard time following what points he's trying to make. He's all over the map.
 
My main takeaway from this a.m. so far: Sondland paid attention to what happened to Cohen, Manafort, & Stone and he isn't willing to follow in their footsteps.
 
plague311 said:
The lawyer for the GOP keeps getting consistently worse in my opinion. I have a hard time following what points he's trying to make. He's all over the map.
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Why would he want to make points? Fishing for the best sound bites and stuff to show on Fox News or Sinclair stations seems vastly more important than presenting a cogent argument.
 
plague311 said:
The lawyer for the GOP keeps getting consistently worse in my opinion. I have a hard time following what points he's trying to make. He's all over the map.
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I figure each side has two basic goals from these hearings:

The first goal is to establish a documented body of "facts" to be presented to the Senate during the trial phase of the impeachment process. For this goal, being able to follow the House hearings as such is unnecessary. The intended audience are the Senators, and they'll get all this material in curated form from the House managers, and from the "defense", during the trial itself. For this goal, it doesn't matter how disorganized the lawyer appears, as long as he gets all his key points into the record so they can be used during the trial.

The second goal is essentially a PR goal: To use the public hearings as a soapbox to create impressions in the minds of voters. It's hard to judge the effectiveness of what this lawyer is doing, without knowing exactly what kind of effect he's expecting to achieve.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Why would he want to make points? Fishing for the best sound bites and stuff to show on Fox News or Sinclair stations seems vastly more important than presenting a cogent argument.
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Exactly. This is the time for sound bites. The actual arguments will come later, during the trial phase. The House Democrats know they're almost certainly going to lose the actual impeachment trial. So this investigation phase is mostly going to be about trying the President in the court of public opinion, ahead of the 2020 election.
 
Donal said:
Want to know why I don't think Trump or the republicans will suffer real consequences for this: Iran-Contra. Hell, Watergate itself blew over by the time Carter took office. no one served more than 4 years, if I remember correctly, and they were all just low level operatives. None of the shot callers went away.
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For some reason, that raises the question for me of whether the Republicans knew of the Russian hacking efforts, or asked for them, way beforehand.
 
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