Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
OTOH He surely would not have made the 'no sweat' claim unless there was an element of truth in it.
Jeffrey Epstein arrested for child sex trafficking
- Thread starter applecorped
- Start date
OTOH He surely would not have made the 'no sweat' claim unless there was an element of truth in it.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
IMV If he was unaware Epstein's 'party girls' were 'enforced sex slaves' and they were not underage, then no matter how depraved or immoral one might think it - and Andrew was single - then he has not broken the law.
Come on, guys have been pursuing young ladies from time immemorial. I can recall numerous corporate events where all us ladies knew we were only being invited because the guys wanted to be surrounded by 'lots of pretty girls' as one put it.
Young ladies flock to be part of the royal entourage. That 15-year-old girl was groomed, sure - by being showered with compliments and gifts (in the old days, this was called 'wooing') - but she went on the private jet of her own volition and even gushes about how she spotted a famous model on the same plane. It's only because she is under-age it becomes 'rape', when if she had been 18, then it would have been a case of just another young lady enjoying the attentions of the rich and famous and having champagne, cocaine and sex and sun-filled beaches.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Is that right? And who made up that rule? You? Besides, I was pointing out that Prince Harry clearly drinks a lot of booze which goes against your argument about the genetics of the Royal family.
But Prince Harry does habitually drink!
Yes, I see. Do you also not smoke, or take heroin, or snort cocaine, smoke crack or have sex with animals? I tell people I don't do these things, but what I really mean is that I don't do them habitually!
You are completely making up a standard that was not made by the pampered prince. He claimed to not know where the bar is or that he had never bought a drink in the club. (That might be true - someone probably does the buying of drinks for him!)
You would make a great royal toady. You think up excuses for them that they haven't even thought of. I can also make crap up on the spot. Watch...
Obviously Prince Andrew was drinking water and pretending it was vodka. He insisted that she down shots with him, but she was too drunk to notice that his servant was filling up the prince's glass with water and hers with vodka.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I just simply meant that when Andrew says he doesn't drink he means he has the odd Dubonnet or Martini mixed 50-50, so weak, it's like drinking a half pint of beer at the most.
Harry had a wild spell. It doesn't mean he was blind drunk. He'd drink Grey Goose (vodka) in a nightclub. When I frequented a South Kensington night club with work colleagues, vodka-and-something was the most common drink. Nobody ever got drunk on it. The amount of vodka they serve you is minuscule.
Utter nonsense.
Phillip drinks and his favourite is reputedly beer, especially Boddington's, though he'll drink 'nice' stuff at official functions.
Charles' favourite is Laphroaig 15-year-old malt. His grandfather was also a whisky drinker.
As has been mentioned Andrew's nephews certainly have form on the boozing front.
angrysoba
Philosophile
????
His claims he doesn't drink is supposed to be some refutation of the claim made by Giuffre. Does it do that? No it doesn't.
That's fascinating, but I don't even know what relevance this has to anything. Are you claiming there can be no possible way for a woman to be plied with drinks in a posh London nightclub? That it has never happened? That it cannot be?
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I have to concur that red-faced Charlie has become a consummate guzzler.
Really? Could have sworn that none of the male Royals drank.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
This woman, Virginia Roberts had a massive fall out with her Madam, Ghislaine Maxwell. (And of course, you can judge a man by his friends: one a Madam, and the other a Pimp with a conviction for procuring an underage prostitute then aged 14, so Andrew may well not be a very nice person.)
She was called a liar by Maxwell and Roberts (now known as 'Giuffre') took out a libel suit. Now Americans are VERY litigious. No doubt Roberts had all sorts of grievances against Maxwell and no doubt for very good reason. HOWEVER, Roberts did travel the world with Maxwell, according to the court depositions, she flew with Maxwell on at least 23 occasions. Does that spell 'f-o-r-c-e' to you?
Prostitute Roberts had cleverly ensured she had photos of her with her famous clients so she used the picture of her and Prince Andrew, with Ghislaine Maxwell in the background, as her bargaining tool for winning damages from Maxwell in her libel suit.
Yes, prostitution rackets are evil and Maxwell disgusting scum. Prince Andrew may or may not be a randy old devil. However, I cannot see he has broken the law.
His denials are weak but not necessarily a lie.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
That was the narrative in the mainstream press. Prince Andrew confirmed he did not drink in his interview.
angrysoba
Philosophile
His denials are very weak. Sometimes they don't even reach the threshold of denial.
He is trying to suggest the photograph is doctored, but can't prove it so he just says that he usually wears a suit and tie in London and maybe he has never gone upstairs in Maxwell House. And he doesn't think he has ordered a drink, and he never drinks, so apparently that means something (and to you it means he sometimes drinks, but only a Dubonnet or a weak Martini - although where this information comes from is a mystery), and he was in a Pizza Express at 5PM so obviously that precludes going out to a night club on the same day. And he never sweats or didn't, or not much - and you have done a good job of adding some very exotic and hitherto unknown information regarding this as well.
It's all very confusing, and until he did the interview I had no reason to think he was a liar or had any opinion about the case. Now, I think he is either a liar or a complete fool. Again, I have no idea about the specific claims made by "Prostitute Roberts" as you call her, but I don't find Randy Andy very credible at all, right now.
angrysoba
Philosophile
It wasn't the "narrative in the mainstream press". This is something you introduced into the thread.
The narrative of the mainstream press is that plenty of the Royals (male and female) booze it up. Charles, William and Harry all have plenty of pictures of them drinking beer, whisky and wine. It seems Andrew is a bit of an exception, although looking at some of the photographs of him, I have to wonder if he uses something else. That last bit is pure speculation on my part. It is useful to point out what is speculation in your posts, by the way, to avoid making it seem you are making claims that are unsupported by facts.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Truth is, angrysoba, thanks to all the cousin-marriages in the royal family (Philip is a cousin of the Queen) there are various congenital tendencies in the family. There is a history of madness, for example, caused by poor protein or enzyme production or breakdown. It is a good job they have now started marrying out, although that rather defeats the purpose of the royal family if they become as common as the rest of us. In addition, you may have noticed the royal family are not the sharpest tools in the box.
Andrew is clearly an idiot, yet I can't help thinking Roberts/Giuffre (who was a prostitute, now turned informer) has taken advantage of his status as a UK Prince and made a right proper Charlie out of him.
Until there is news he has actually done anything wrong other than being stupid, I can't add my voice to the outraged virtue-signalling going on.
Is that a long-winded way of saying, "sorry, I was wrong"? Needs work.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
No, what I said was: 'Until there is news he has actually done anything wrong other than being stupid, I can't add my voice to the outraged virtue-signalling going on.'
Sorry if you don't like it. <shrug>
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Being stupid is, in this instance, already plenty wrong enough. And it's an ongoing, compounding stupidity:
- Associating with a known child molester
- Engaging in casual physical contact with young women procured by the known child molester
- Letting himself be photographed in public making contact
- Awkward parade of lame excuses*
Best case scenario, he's a jackass who should have known better.
Best plausible scenario: He's a lying jackass who did know better.
Worst case scenario (not fully supported by the evidence so far): He's a lying jackass and Epstein pimped out underage prostitutes to him.
---
*Such as:
"I was doing the honorable thing."
"I don't remember."
"I don't drink."
"I don't sweat."
"I do sweat now, though."
"I was at a pizza parlor that day."
Do the current accusations not count as "news" in your world?
Does spending four days with a convicted sex offender in New York not count as "news" in your world?
Interesting.
Maybe when you said "news" you meant incontrovertible proof in video format verified by the Prince and the Queen as proof solid of wrong doing? If so, you may want to state that up front.
ETA: Damn, I like theprestige's post better than mine.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Whoa! Epstein was convicted of procuring an underage adult for prostitution. That is not child molesting nor is it paedophilia.
AFAIAA whilst kerb crawling is illegal there is no law against a man having sex with a prostitute as unsavoury as you might find it.
The word 'paedophile' has completely lost its meaning. It either means sexual attraction to young children or it doesn't. If the youngest 'sex slave' cops could find was fourteen-years old (perhaps almost fifteen?) that doesn't suggest a 'young child' even if it is statutory rape as being underage.
So 'sex trafficking' now seems to mean flying a seventeen-year-old prostitute to Belgravia to have sex with a prince in luxurious surroundings (and it was so awful, she travelled about with Maxwell by air at least twenty-three times!) when - silly me! - I thought sex trafficking crimes related to bringing real children from third world countries to the first world and making them work in massage parlours disguised as nail bars, passport confiscated and unable to escape.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
No, in the world of the likes of Prince Andrew, they are indeed loyal to their friends (cf Lord Lucan). When Andrew says he was merely being honourable, strangely enough, he was probably telling the truth, when anyone else in this digital age might have sent a text or blocked them on Facebook.