The Trump Presidency: Part 18

[Craig4]

Deserves jail for what?

I think he's abysmal and should be removed. I don't know that he's broken any laws. The terrible bending of the Justice Dept. to act as the president's attorney is worthy of removal but not a violation of law as far as I can tell.

But perhaps I'm overlooking either some act or some law.

He conspired with Cohen to pay hush money to a porn star in support of his campaign and then fail to report the expenditure as a campaign expense. This is a felony violation of campaign finance laws and his lawyer is already serving a prison sentence for it. He also, in his own transcripts asked a foreign government for a thing of value (ie a service, investigate the Bidens). The act of asking for the thing of value for his campaign is a crime from a foreign government is a crime.

 

[alfaniner]

And the exit for health reasons begins ...

I posted about my hope for that some time ago. It's the only way he can save face. And still be able to gripe until the end of time.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Not even Hitler or Stalin?

I wish that sort of stuff on plenty of people. Just not the regular people.

For me, not even Hitler or Stalin.

If a horrible death from cancer was the only way to prevent genocide, let’s say, I guess you could get me on board. But if a quick and painless death were a viable alternative, my humanity would have me choose that instead. To do otherwise just seems sadistic.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Oh good a trolley problem.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Dowd never understood the pulse of the Republican Party, present or past. He’s just a 3rd rate hit job for Fake News @ABC!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Our great Farmers will recieve another major round of “cash,” compliments of China Tariffs, prior to Thanksgiving. The smaller farms and farmers will be big beneficiaries. In the meantime, and as you may have noticed, China is starting to buy big again. Japan deal DONE. Enjoy!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Mr. Chairman, Joe Biden may be Sleepy and Very Slow, but he is not a “rabid dog.” He is actually somewhat better than that, but I am the only one who can get you where you have to be. You should act quickly, get the deal done. See you soon!

Graham Ledger
@GrahamLedger
North Korea calls Joe Biden a ‘rabid dog’ who should be ‘beaten to death with a stick’ in latest attack on Trump’s rival. #Biden #biden2020 https://thesun.co.uk/news/10354955/north-korea-joe-biden-rabid-dog-beaten-death/

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Joe Ricketts, one of our Country’s most successful businessmen, including being the owner of the Chicago Cubs, has just written a great new book, THE HARDER YOU WORK, THE LUCKIER YOU GET. So true! Much can be learned from Joe. Go get the book!

The Do Nothing Dems are now doing even less - and soooo much work to be done!

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Oh good a trolley problem.

Go down the track with the 10 people, and shoot the lone person on the way past. Easy.

 

[acbytesla]

He conspired with Cohen to pay hush money to a porn star in support of his campaign and then fail to report the expenditure as a campaign expense. This is a felony violation of campaign finance laws and his lawyer is already serving a prison sentence for it. He also, in his own transcripts asked a foreign government for a thing of value (ie a service, investigate the Bidens). The act of asking for the thing of value for his campaign is a crime from a foreign government is a crime.

The Ukraine extortion amounts to felony bribery. Trump has committed tax and/or bank/insurance fraud. When you tell the government that a piece of property is worth a tiny amount for tax purposes and banks and insurance companies a higher amount, you have committed fraud to one or the other, maybe both. When you exaggerate occupancy rates to investors you have committed wire fraud. It's clear that the Fred Trump heirs committed tax fraud to New York State. Unfortunately, the statute of limitations is up on that one.

 

[phiwum]

Trump Tweets

Mr. Chairman, Joe Biden may be Sleepy and Very Slow, but he is not a “rabid dog.” He is actually somewhat better than that, but I am the only one who can get you where you have to be. You should act quickly, get the deal done. See you soon!

Graham Ledger
@GrahamLedger
North Korea calls Joe Biden a ‘rabid dog’ who should be ‘beaten to death with a stick’ in latest attack on Trump’s rival. #Biden #biden2020 https://thesun.co.uk/news/10354955/north-korea-joe-biden-rabid-dog-beaten-death/

What a firm and unwavering defense of American citizens. North Korea says Biden deserves to die and Trump, in a rare statement of bipartisan support, says he's somewhat better than that.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweets

Paul Krugman has called me wrong from day one. People at the Failing New York Times are very angry at him for having “missed” by soooo much. Paul, match over!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Who doesn't spread their physical exam out over several months?

Depends how many days within those several months.

Maybe if he needed a colonoscopy.

Still hard to interpret this.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Deserves jail for what?

I think he's abysmal and should be removed. I don't know that he's broken any laws. The terrible bending of the Justice Dept. to act as the president's attorney is worthy of removal but not a violation of law as far as I can tell.

But perhaps I'm overlooking either some act or some law.

Yeah, you are overlooking a lot.

Apparently you buy the Barr lie that there were no crimes found by Mueller despite at least 4 clear-cut instances of Trump obstructing Justice being described in detail in the report.

The shenanigans in Ukraine involve a number of crimes from obstruction of justice to bribery/extortion.

Corruption, not just the emoluments charges which appear to be civil. How is it not corrupt to demand business be steered to your hotel? Then there is the corruption involved selling visas to the Chinese if they invest a large sum in Trump owned properties. That went on before and apparently after Trump was elected.

We don't know yet what tax fraud and money laundering he's done. And there was stealing from charities or at a minimum tax fraud. Election law violations: multiple. Again maybe civil, but tax fraud was criminal it just that the judge let him off easy maybe because the case didn't include the tax fraud involved.

How you missed all this suggests you aren't looking.

 

[phiwum]

Yeah, you are overlooking a lot.

Apparently you buy the Barr lie that there were no crimes found by Mueller despite at least 4 clear-cut instances of Trump obstructing Justice being described in detail in the report.

Assuming that your assessment is accurate (and without refreshing my memory on his exact statements), what is the precise crime?

The shenanigans in Ukraine involve a number of crimes from obstruction of justice to bribery/extortion.

Which of Barr's actions would be crimes?

Corruption, not just the emoluments charges which appear to be civil. How is it not corrupt to demand business be steered to your hotel? Then there is the corruption involved selling visas to the Chinese if they invest a large sum in Trump owned properties. That went on before and apparently after Trump was elected.

I think that you must be confused about my question. I was asking what Barr did to deserve jail time. I'm not asking about Trump.

We don't know yet what tax fraud and money laundering he's done. And there was stealing from charities or at a minimum tax fraud. Election law violations: multiple. Again maybe civil, but tax fraud was criminal it just that the judge let him off easy maybe because the case didn't include the tax fraud involved.

How you missed all this suggests you aren't looking.

You've made a passionate response to a question I didn't ask. (Though you did start off talking about Barr, somewhere you transitioned to Trump's malfeasance.)

I can totally see jail time as appropriate for Trump. I can also buy that Barr should be impeached and removed, but at present I don't know what criminal charges could be brought against Barr.

Again, I'm happy to change my mind. I loathe Barr and it might be pleasant to think that he deserves jail, but I have to know what for.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Trump Tweets

Joe Ricketts, one of our Country’s most successful businessmen, including being the owner of the Chicago Cubs, has just written a great new book, THE HARDER YOU WORK, THE LUCKIER YOU GET. So true! Much can be learned from Joe. Go get the book!

The Do Nothing Dems are now doing even less - and soooo much work to be done!

Just like his BS claim he sacrificed for the war efforts, here he is imagining he actually worked hard for his money.

 

[smartcooky]

Again, I'm happy to change my mind. I loathe Barr and it might be pleasant to think that he deserves jail, but I have to know what for.

Ignoring a duly and legally served subpoena is a criminal offence

43 USC § 104. Disobedience to subpoena

Any person willfully neglecting or refusing obedience to such subpoena, or neglecting or refusing to appear and testify when subpoenaed, his fees having been paid if demanded, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, for which he shall be punished by indictment in the district court of the United States or in the district courts of the Territories exercising the jurisdiction of district courts of the United States. The punishment for such offense, upon conviction, shall be a fine of not more than $200, or imprisonment not to exceed ninety days, or both, at the discretion of the court:​

 

[phiwum]

Ignoring a duly and legally served subpoena is a criminal offence

43 USC § 104. Disobedience to subpoena

Any person willfully neglecting or refusing obedience to such subpoena, or neglecting or refusing to appear and testify when subpoenaed, his fees having been paid if demanded, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, for which he shall be punished by indictment in the district court of the United States or in the district courts of the Territories exercising the jurisdiction of district courts of the United States. The punishment for such offense, upon conviction, shall be a fine of not more than $200, or imprisonment not to exceed ninety days, or both, at the discretion of the court:​

Okay, I might give you that one, but I'm guessing Aridas wasn't talking about a ninety day stint when he said Barr deserves to be jailed.

(Some might say that Barr is blameless even in this case, since the subpoenas are unlawful due to "executive immunity", but I certainly won't take that stand. I would like a court order to settle the issue, just for the sake of precedence.)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Assuming that your assessment is accurate (and without refreshing my memory on his exact statements), what is the precise crime?

Which of Barr's actions would be crimes?

I think that you must be confused about my question. I was asking what Barr did to deserve jail time. I'm not asking about Trump.

You've made a passionate response to a question I didn't ask. (Though you did start off talking about Barr, somewhere you transitioned to Trump's malfeasance.)

I can totally see jail time as appropriate for Trump. I can also buy that Barr should be impeached and removed, but at present I don't know what criminal charges could be brought against Barr.

Again, I'm happy to change my mind. I loathe Barr and it might be pleasant to think that he deserves jail, but I have to know what for.

I did think you were talking about Trump.

On to Barr: How about misleading the American public about the Mueller Report?

A Side-by-Side Comparison of Barr’s vs. Mueller’s Statements about Special Counsel Report

Business Insider: Attorney General Bill Barr's speech to the conservative Federalist Society is under scrutiny for its political tilt

There is corruption and obstruction of justice there. And ignoring the subpoena smartcooky noted.

But who's left to charge the top prosecutor?

 

[Trebuchet]

Maybe if he needed a colonoscopy.

They could see where his tweets are coming from.