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Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

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Thermal said:
She is not stranded. She and Daddy Thunberg simply planned incompetently.
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The original plan was to depart from somewhere, after attending COP25 in Santiago. My best guess is that they were planning on a cargo ship like those Dutch activists I mentioned earlier. There would have been no sense of urgency, like there is now and the Thunberg party could have spent weeks or months looking for a suitable means of low carbon transport.

Now the conference has been moved and plans have had to be changed. The whole getting to Spain thing has been rather quiet so I'm thinking that plans have already been made.
 
Thermal said:
...which changes nothing. She still had to get back to her side of the world sooner or later, right? What was her plan (or rather, her father's) to get back across the OMO? She is not flipping shipwrecked. She is where she planned to be. While the departure date changed, she always had to get back. Why does she claim now to have no idea how to do so?
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Have you ever travelled anywhere? Your book your itinerary to end up in Santiago, Chile on Dec. 8th. Halfway through you have to change that itinerary to end up in Spain on Dec. 8th. That means almost every event and trip leg must be changed. She was committed to events all along her route and now they aren't going to happen. If she could catch any flight, it would be different but she is attempting to travel with near zero emissions so it makes it that mush more difficult.

Agreed. It takes careful planning do do so responsibly. That's why if you refuse to fly, you should work your logistics our carefully when you make plans to hop back and forth across the ocean. This little logistical detail obviously got by the Thunbergs. Somehow. It would have been pretty high on my planning itinerary.

Put that in yer pipe and smoke it :D
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Just how many zero emissions crossings of the ocean do you think there are in a day? You claim she failed to plan for her return but your just making that up. Let's say she did plan a return on a boat from some location after the summit in Chile. That is a far cry from catching the same boat from some other location a month and a half earlier. It makes sense that she put out a call for more options as zero emissions trips across the ocean are relatively rare at this point and I would think they are readily known to too many people.

Your dislike of this young lady is clouding your judgement.
 
Stout said:
The original plan was to depart from somewhere, after attending COP25 in Santiago. My best guess is that they were planning on a cargo ship like those Dutch activists I mentioned earlier. There would have been no sense of urgency, like there is now and the Thunberg party could have spent weeks or months looking for a suitable means of low carbon transport.

Now the conference has been moved and plans have had to be changed. The whole getting to Spain thing has been rather quiet so I'm thinking that plans have already been made.
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Oh, Jesus! Don't use simple reasoning here. OUTRAGE! We need lots of outrage about a 16 year old who's doing what she can to clean up the planet.
 
qayak said:
Have you ever travelled anywhere? Your book your itinerary to end up in Santiago, Chile on Dec. 8th. Halfway through you have to change that itinerary to end up in Spain on Dec. 8th. That means almost every event and trip leg must be changed. She was committed to events all along her route and now they aren't going to happen. If she could catch any flight, it would be different but she is attempting to travel with near zero emissions so it makes it that mush more difficult.
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Of course I've had plans change in travel, whether by choice or circumstance. Took me all of a few minutes each time to resolve.

But she is 'stranded'. Well, she is, but by choice. After the carbon fail that was the yacht fiasco, she and dad should have a sit-down and work this out. Buy a plane ticket, pay for the carbon offsets, and learn the painful lesson that for all practical purposes, globe-hopping really requires flying. Most of us could have told her that in advance.

But she wants to stick to her guns. Great, she evidently has the luxury of unlimited time and resources. With all the world evidently following her endeavors, not a soul has offered to give her a lift. I think that means something.


Just how many zero emissions crossings of the ocean do you think there are in a day? You claim she failed to plan for her return but your just making that up. Let's say she did plan a return on a boat from some location after the summit in Chile. That is a far cry from catching the same boat from some other location a month and a half earlier. It makes sense that she put out a call for more options as zero emissions trips across the ocean are relatively rare at this point and I would think they are readily known to too many people.
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Yeah, I get that. That's why you don't go globe trotting with multiple destinations on a timetable with a dream of zero emissions. You better have your own boat for that. Perhaps someone could mention that option to the Thurbergs. For all the foot stomping about zero emission travel, seems that chartering an ocean-going sailboat would solve that problem. If expense is the problem, maybe her travel demands are beyond her financial reach.

Your dislike of this young lady is clouding your judgement.
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I like her. She is passionate about a worthy cause, and is dedicated to it. Upthread, I introduced that she declined an award and $50,000+ purse on principle. I applaud her sincerity and commitment.

What I don't like are mindless hypocritical cheerleaders, rah-rahing a dog and pony show. You see how you are claiming I dislike her? It's not true, but you believe it to fit your narrative. That's what I don't like.
 
Orphia Nay said:
<non sequiturs snipped>

If people expect Thunberg to walk on water, are they also going to do the same?
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Nobody expects Thunberg to walk on water. Why does even reasonable criticism of Thunberg have to get spun into craziness by her supporters?

Starting a GoFundMe to pay for carbon offsets so that she can travel by air on her important mission, is a reasonable suggestion. Asking why she has not done so is a reasonable question. Saying that she should have done so is a reasonable critique.

That is not to say that these must be correct positions. They can be reasonably disputed. But you're not doing that. Your response is to spin out some crazy "walks on water" dismissal. Lionking responds to similar reasonable criticisms with a crazy "live in a cave" dismissal.

Thunberg has some reasonable concerns. She's doing a reasonably good job of advocating for her concerns. But there's a lot of unreasonable hype building up around her activism. That's where the pushback is coming from.
 
I did a bit of checking into the traveling by cargo ship idea. Expensive AF when compared to air travel, 10-20 days to cross the Atlantic, book 3-12 months in advance. Thunberg could be screwed here but given the absence of any more appeals for help ( the first and last one was 11 days ago ) she and her party probably have something worked out.

Or maybe they gave up.
 
lionking said:
Indeed.

I posted this earlier. There are very good reasons that people meet in person, be it the UN, governments, political parties, businesses, sporting clubs etc etc etc. So much of communication is non verbal (look it up cullennz) and there are the informal meetings that happen at conferences, AGMs, seminars and I could go on and on. The real work is not done at teleconferences.

So please cullennz, cut out this “she could just get on the Internet” crap.
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A lot of people generate a lot of influence purely over the internet. There's a whole profession for that, now.

What important work does Thunberg need to do in person, at COP25?
 
Giordano said:
I’ve realized that the right wing sneering directed at Thunberg has gone a long way toward increasing her visibility and establishing her as a spokesperson. Way to go guys!:thumbsup:
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Do you actually believe in this cargo-cult view of activism?

Do you actually believe the dissent voiced here has amplified Thunberg's message?
 
Spain's acting minister for ecologic transition, Teresa Ribera, replied that her government would get in touch to help organize the trip to Madrid. "It would be great to have you here in Madrid," she tweeted, "You've made a long journey and help all of us to raise concern, open minds and enhance action. We would love to help you to cross the Atlantic back. Willing to get in contact to make it posible [sic]."
 
Thermal said:
You probably understand the theory of default assumptions, lacking any new evidence
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There is a quote that appears frequently on this forum.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I will concede though, that most of your posts in this thread consist primarily of assumptions based on a lack of evidence.

Eta: Matthew Best got there first.
 
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I expect Spain's that acting minister for ecologic transition would have more important things to do, than arrange plane tickets for Greta Thunberg.

Actually, no. I don't expect that.
 
theprestige said:
I expect Spain's that acting minister for ecologic transition would have more important things to do, than arrange plane tickets for Greta Thunberg.

Actually, no. I don't expect that.
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Because telling her staff, “Arrange transportation for that girl” could only be said at the expense of some more important task.

Did you expect that she was going to start calling travel agents herself?

Actually, yes. I do expect you think that.
 
Stout said:
Meh...a few phone calls and they could send this thing to ferry her over.
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Surely not. Think of how much CO2 would be generated cooking for a crew of over 300.

Face facts. It is not possible to travel, or do anything else at all, and remain carbon neutral. Fortunately for her critics there will always be a way to criticize Thunbergs every move.
 
Steve said:
Because telling her staff, “Arrange transportation for that girl” could only be said at the expense of some more important task.
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Another fascinating hypothesis: That there is someone in Spain's ministry of ecological transition, that literally has nothing more important to do about that right now, than arrange travel for Greta Thunberg. Who do you think it is? The receptionist? The junior assistant who fetches the coffee and baguettes? No, that's France. Sangria? Whatever.

Did you expect that she was going to start calling travel agents herself?
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Honestly? I expected Greta to start calling travel agents herself. I did not expect Spain's ministry of ecological transition to offer itself as her travel agent.

Actually, yes. I do expect you think that.
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I mean, I could go either way on this one. On the one hand, the cynic in me says this is probably as good a use of the minister's time as anything else her office might have her doing. On the other hand, if we assume that Spain's ministry of ecological transition is staffed for serious work, and is doing serious work, then having anyone in the ministry take time out from that to act as Thunberg's travel agent seems profoundly unserious and anti-ecological.

Especially since Thunberg is already traveling with her father, which seems like it should more than enough travel agent to handle this problem without involving the Spanish government.
 
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