Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?
- Thread starter Matthew Best
- Start date
- Status
Silver lining and all.
Back to reality
So far all attempts to mitigate GHG emissions from burning fossil fuels have failed. Increases in renewables and increases in vehicle fuel efficiencies are all good yet Greta Thunberg's childhood has still been ruined.
So what now ? Wait for government and young people to fix this climate emergency ?
Distracted1
Philosopher
I see your point, but I think it a disingenuous one.
I think that most people who care to give the issue thought realise that when the rubber hits the road the crux of the problem is the consumer-culture itself. The "right" is not being paranoid when they point out that much of what will likely need to be done if the greatest numbers of people are to come through this with the least suffering will resemble forms of Communism.
That is a dangerous "third-rail" consideration, as we have an entire world sustaining itself through manipulating that culture to their own benefit to one extent or another- and we are rightly terrified of the cultural and personal upheavals that will probably result from rejecting that model.
It may very well be the case that this problem could be solved by a sufficient number of people choosing to live in a much smaller house, ride a bike or use mass transit to travel, stop eating meat, stop purchasing 99% of the crap that we purchase, and otherwise behave as completely rational global citizens.
The downside, of course is the the complete economic collapse that would likely take place should a number of people sufficient to make a difference decide to take that route.
The irony not lost on those who might be willing to make those changes, is that by becoming the solution to the climate crisis they will put themselves in the position of martyrs, as the economic collapse will hurt them more than the people who continued to live like hogs.
Conversely, if they continue to consume like the hogs, they are also most likely to suffer the worst effects of the climate collapse.
The dilemma then, is how to avoid being a victim of the climate problem without becoming a martyr to the solution. The answer to that seems to be forced collective action. Which is what I think you mean when you said "this isn't a problem we can solve one concerned citizens a time".
That is what Greta is a poster girl for. Of course it is for show. She need only show herself making an effort to be the concerned citizen (like the sailboat, and the Tesla), it is clear that those things are not the solution- but more importantly they are not the solution she is urging. The solution she is selling is the idea of collective action as something that is necessary, and what she is attempting (wittingly or not) is to indoctrinate the upcoming generation to embrace that idea.
Sorry for the ramble.
Last edited:
Thermal
August Member
I was specifically looking for exactly what she had done and said. As far as I can see, she has urged school 'strikes' and shamed adults for 'taking away her childhood'. Which I am not sure was actually taken away.
What action has been spurned? What nation has changed its energy initiatives? I'm not talking about flash in the pan decreased airline usage in Sweden. Time will tell if that holds out.
Again, it's not the conservation and responsible management agenda I have a problem with. It is the endless dog and pony shows. Feel good showboating is a hollow substitute for action.
Exactly my point. Real work getting done, with real results. All sans Greta, btw.
As I keep saying, playtime is over. Cheap theatrics are over. Time to drop the pom poms and get to work. Greta seems like an aging cheerleader at this point. We don't need school strikes for another cheap show. We need to hit them in the wallet
No time to catch up other than to read some of the discussion in here about Greta Thunberg's transportation methods.
FYI, Qantas have been testing flying planes using biofuels since at least 2012.
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/sustainable-aviation-fuel/global/en
The first Sydney - LA biofuelled flight was in January 2012.
"In January 2018 we operated the world's first dedicated biofuel flight between the United States and Australia: QF96 from Los Angeles to Melbourne. The historic trans-Pacific 15-hour flight operated with approximately 24,000kg of blended biofuel, saving 18,000kg in carbon emissions.
"Qantas used biofuel processed from Brassica Carinata, a non-food, industrial type of mustard seed, developed by Canadian-based agricultural-technology company, Agrisoma BiosciencesThis link will open in a new window.. Carinata is planted in the off-season so it provides landholders supplementary income and doesn't interfere with a farm's primary production. The plant is water efficient, reduces erosion and conserves soil nutrients.
"The flight was part of the partnership announced in 2017 which will also see the companies work with Australian farmers to grow the country's first commercial aviation biofuel seed crop by 2020."
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/sustainable-aviation-fuel/global/en
At each stage of the production and use of the aviation biofuel, carbon is reabsorbed, compared to the opposite with conventional aviation fuel.
Pic: https://www.qantas.com/img/350x232/environ1-a.jpg
Note, I don't know what planes Greta Thunberg has been flying in (if any), or if any other airlines already fly with green fuel methods, but I seem to recall I did read something (unrelated to Thunberg).
Just pointing out that, as with nearly everything these days, if you look into it, there are better ways to do things that are also already being done.
I'm not following Thunberg's journey, but I see some of the interesting environmental, science, political and protest news she shares.
FYI, Qantas have been testing flying planes using biofuels since at least 2012.
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/sustainable-aviation-fuel/global/en
The first Sydney - LA biofuelled flight was in January 2012.
"In January 2018 we operated the world's first dedicated biofuel flight between the United States and Australia: QF96 from Los Angeles to Melbourne. The historic trans-Pacific 15-hour flight operated with approximately 24,000kg of blended biofuel, saving 18,000kg in carbon emissions.
"Qantas used biofuel processed from Brassica Carinata, a non-food, industrial type of mustard seed, developed by Canadian-based agricultural-technology company, Agrisoma BiosciencesThis link will open in a new window.. Carinata is planted in the off-season so it provides landholders supplementary income and doesn't interfere with a farm's primary production. The plant is water efficient, reduces erosion and conserves soil nutrients.
"The flight was part of the partnership announced in 2017 which will also see the companies work with Australian farmers to grow the country's first commercial aviation biofuel seed crop by 2020."
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/sustainable-aviation-fuel/global/en
At each stage of the production and use of the aviation biofuel, carbon is reabsorbed, compared to the opposite with conventional aviation fuel.
Pic: https://www.qantas.com/img/350x232/environ1-a.jpg
Note, I don't know what planes Greta Thunberg has been flying in (if any), or if any other airlines already fly with green fuel methods, but I seem to recall I did read something (unrelated to Thunberg).
Just pointing out that, as with nearly everything these days, if you look into it, there are better ways to do things that are also already being done.
I'm not following Thunberg's journey, but I see some of the interesting environmental, science, political and protest news she shares.
Last edited:
Greta criticised Australia's Prime Minister.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...-thunberg-climate-speech-20190925-p52uma.html
The PM has since banned exporting our recycling, and now:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...EEK5qKedZfvtpw0CwJWH400KM9E7ooJW-m3qRdZZn-J4A
Today, Australia's PM, leaders and thinkers met to enact recycling systems changes in Australia.
The PM and current government (with whom I disagree on many things) actually have a circular economy policy, and many environmental strategies.
I was criticising them on Twitter a lot, early in the year. Then recently, I realised that I didn't actually know much about them or look at the current gov.au news releases.
It's our fear of our traditional enemies and our own tunnel vision that stops us realising we have more in common than we think.
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
Greta writes:
11,000 scientists recently signed a declaration of climate emergency.
It's great that this gets media attention.
But it's not like this [is] the first time. Just last year over 20,000 scientists signed a similar warning. How many warnings do we need for us to actually start treating this crisis as a crisis?
11,000 scientists recently signed a declaration of climate emergency.
It's great that this gets media attention.
But it's not like this [is] the first time. Just last year over 20,000 scientists signed a similar warning. How many warnings do we need for us to actually start treating this crisis as a crisis?
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
'Greta Thunberg effect' driving growth in carbon offsetting
Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.
NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
Growing concern about the climate crisis and the “Greta Thunberg effect” are driving huge increases in individuals and businesses choosing to offset their emissions by investing in carbon-reducing projects in developing countries.
NGOs and organisations involved in carbon offsetting have seen as much as a fourfold increase in investment from people who want to try to mitigate their carbon footprints.
So much for the "she is doing nothing" naysayers. make way deniers.
I'm not sure which is more laughable
The thinking they weren't making efforts for years before Greta hit your radar or that you think she prompted them.
Oh yes, carbon offsets. Even Greta Thunberg knows those ae feeble and ineffective otherwise she'd be flying and using those rather than refusing to fly.
Emulate your heroes people, don't simply buy your way to salvation.
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
David Hughes, the chair of Climate Stewards, said: “This year, the whole business of carbon offsetting has suddenly taken off. It has been so gratifying to see a lot of individuals choosing to offset over the last 12 months – the numbers have more than doubled.
“We are seeing the Greta effect, the impact of Extinction Rebellion, the impact of the words of David Attenborough, the school strikes, all of these coming together.”
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Two things I know:
Efforts were being made since before Thunberg was born.
Efforts have increased due to her influence.j
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Yep. There is a whole lot of struggling and failure going on to find legitimate reasons to criticize her. In spite of it all an imperfect 16 yo girl with limited experience and limited knowledge is having way more positive effect on mitigating climate change than any of her critics ever have or ever will.
If her increased carbon footprint over the course of her tour influences, say, 10,000 young people to reduce theirs then that is a positive trade off. I do agree with obvious position with her old fart critics here that expecting any of them to further reduce their own carbon footprints due to her efforts is a lost cause. Fortunately many, many people think otherwise.
Don't agree with this.
I find the way she comes across is irritating in some of her speeches, but that is due to bad acting and the people that write the script.
She should be in school in some capacity though
not sure why you think people want her to live in a cave.
Just not causing 6 trans-Atlantic flights to not cause 4 would be handy
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It seems like you're having trouble articulating a reasonable middle ground between "luxury air travel whenever you want" and "live in a cave with no electricity or running water".
Greta could travel by air because her message is important and must be delivered in person. You've suggested she's doing important work in the past, but seem reluctant to argue that this justifies air travel. Why not? Other important people will be flying to COP25, why shouldn't Greta?
Greta could travel by air and buy carbon offsets to compensate, but you've also not made that argument. Why not? Do you not believe in carbon offsets?
As someone who regularly vacations by air, and who also clearly believes in the importance of Greta's message, I think you would have some really good insights into the subject. It's exactly because you don't choose to live in a cave that I'm interested in what you have to say about Greta's travel choices.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
'Greta Thunberg effect' ?
I thought her big audience was high school and younger, age kids..
Is the argument, that they are talking their parents into investing in carbon-reducing projects?
Why?
COP 25 is a shindig of loads of people who have been talking about climate change since probably before she was born.
The whole point of the thing is climate change.
What is the actual point of her rocking up and saying listen to scientists to a room which features some extremely good climate scientist do exactly?
And again
Video conference, **** off big massive TV, no plane flights, no sitting on a boat for two weeks
- Status