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House Impeachment Inquiry

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PhantomWolf said:
I'd note that this was a poor choice of video given the poisoning of the well it starts out with. Just about everything it starts out with in the Text is a lie.
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Seen without preconceptions it's unremarkable stuff, and certainly made no waves at the time. Sure, Biden makes a point of his own plain-speaking, but that's something US Americans have always celebrated as one of their (many) virtues. It's been dug out and retro-fitted to the peculiar conspiracy tale that Trump and Giuliani (and BrooklynBaby) have bought into. Or one of them, at least.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
I'm getting concerned with the precedent being set for ignoring subpoenas. They have decided to not go through the courts to try to enforce them, and only one case is moving ahead because the subpoenaed person sued for it. This was already happening before, but now we are on impeachment level and there are still no consequences. Congress's investigative and oversight abilities seem to depend on executive branch members willingness to speak out, and more and more career people are leaving.
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I've been worried about that for the last week or so, too.
 
CapelDodger said:
I think if the Democrats hadn't impeached on this case a lot of people would have given up on two-party politics completely and there'd have been an exodus from the Democratic Party to third-parties such as the Greens. Something this egregious simply has to be pursued on principle, without regard to electoral consequences. The Republican Party has demonstrated that it stands by no principles at all : if the Democratic Party did the same what would be left?
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Makes one wonder what the GOP is thinking. I do notice McConnell's language has softened a bit, stating the process will play out.
 
CapelDodger said:
He's not bragging, he's relating an encounter that he had as a senior politician. It's not bragging, unless reminding people that you've once held high office is bragging. He's not saying "This is what you can do if you're me", he's saying "This is what you can get done if you're speaking for the US".
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Well, everyone in the thread can see the video for themselves. I see bragging. You don't. At least it's opinion and not facts we are disagreeing on.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Makes one wonder what the GOP is thinking. I do notice McConnell's language has softened a bit, stating the process will play out.
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McConnell has lied enough that by now you should know not to trust him, especially when he sounds agreeable. By "play out" he means "kill it immediately and use 'no impeachment!' as a campaign slogan."
 
PhantomWolf said:
I'd note that this was a poor choice of video given the poisoning of the well it starts out with. Just about everything it starts out with in the Text is a lie.
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:confused:

Not sure what you mean.


I think it sucks that Hunter took that cush job. You know his father influenced it even if it was absolutely unspoken, nothing Joe Biden actually did. Trump is so ignorant, he didn't need anything from Zelensky.

Trump could have just gone with implications. But Trump has a personality disorder and he can't help himself. Plus he believes in more than a few CTs. He couldn't help himself when a CT fantasy developed that reinforced his desire to convince people the Russians didn't help him get elected.

Anyhoo... I was never a fan of Biden's and this reinforced that. It made him so 'business as usual'. I'm really glad it came out in the primary. I'd hate to see this as an Oct surprise. (Another unforced error on Trump's part.)
 
PhantomWolf said:
Did you even bother to read the Text at the start if the video?
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What's with this, "didn't even bother to". Could you be any snarkier?

No I didn't read it. I didn't read anything at the link. The point was about Biden bragging in the video, none of the rest of it was relevant to the discussion.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
What's with this, "didn't even bother to". Could you be any snarkier?

No I didn't read it. I didn't read anything at the link. The point was about Biden bragging in the video, none of the rest of it was relevant to the discussion.
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I'm guessing then that you have no issues with promoting the lies that Hunter Biden got $3 million from Burisma, that Shokin was busy investigating him when he was fired, and that Biden had Shokin fired to protect Hunter and prevent his corruption from being exposed, because that is what the video you choose claims.

I get that you wanted to show the interview, but selecting a video that blatantly lies about the situation and poisons the well first is just a bad idea.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I'm guessing then that you have no issues with promoting the lies that Hunter Biden got $3 million from Burisma, that Shokin was busy investigating him when he was fired, and that Biden had Shokin fired to protect Hunter and prevent his corruption from being exposed, because that is what the video you choose claims.

I get that you wanted to show the interview, but selecting a video that blatantly lies about the situation and poisons the well first is just a bad idea.
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When I first watched the video over a month ago, I expected it to show something confirming the lies aspect. So, watching it had the opposite of the intended effect on me.

I'd guess that overall it's 50/50 between those who react like I did and those who see it as proof of the lies.
In the context of this forum, I'd guess far more people will react like I did (and SG, and presumably yourself, as well.)
 
PhantomWolf said:
I'm guessing then that you have no issues with promoting the lies that Hunter Biden got $3 million from Burisma, that Shokin was busy investigating him when he was fired, and that Biden had Shokin fired to protect Hunter and prevent his corruption from being exposed, because that is what the video you choose claims.

I get that you wanted to show the interview, but selecting a video that blatantly lies about the situation and poisons the well first is just a bad idea.
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You couldn't be more off base about me. You griped I didn't read some text that wasn't related to the discussion.

Well let me reciprocate. If you'd read my posts instead of developing this false assumption you would know that is an absurd statement.

I've probably posted a half dozen times just in the last couple days that Hunter was not being investigated during any of this.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
You couldn't be more off base about me. You griped I didn't read some text that wasn't related to the discussion.

Well let me reciprocate. If you'd read my posts instead of developing this false assumption you would know that is an absurd statement.

I've probably posted a half dozen times just in the last couple days that Hunter was not being investigated during any of this.
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Perhaps you need to reread what I wrote, I didn't say that I guessed you believed it, I said you don't seem to mind promoting it.

Personally I would not use a conspiracy promoting video because it had something else in it that I wanted to show, unless I really couldn't find it anywhere else, and then I'd have a disclaimer to the video (I have done that when referencing CTers on certain topics where they debunk other CTs)

My point is that you were promoting a video that was promoting a conspiracy theory, and you didn't even seem to realise it because you failed to read the claims it made right at the start, and you don't seem to have a problem with doing so.
 
kellyb said:
When I first watched the video over a month ago, I expected it to show something confirming the lies aspect. So, watching it had the opposite of the intended effect on me.

I'd guess that overall it's 50/50 between those who react like I did and those who see it as proof of the lies.
In the context of this forum, I'd guess far more people will react like I did (and SG, and presumably yourself, as well.)
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That's because you can think for yourself, the issue is more for those that have contracted out their thinking process to the likes of Trump and Giuliani who will them go, "well SG posted a video that says a,b,& c just like Trump and Giuliani claim, so it must be true is even Democrat supporters say it is."
 
PhantomWolf said:
I'm guessing then that you have no issues with promoting the lies that Hunter Biden got $3 million from Burisma, that Shokin was busy investigating him when he was fired, and that Biden had Shokin fired to protect Hunter and prevent his corruption from being exposed, because that is what the video you choose claims.
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Nothing Skeptic Ginger said in that exchange promoted those lies; they referred only to Biden's bragging.


I get that you wanted to show the interview, but selecting a video that blatantly lies about the situation and poisons the well first is just a bad idea.
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No doubt, especially when there are people around eager to read more into it than is meant. There's no reason to think that Skeptic Ginger selected that clip because of the intro : he clearly thinks that Biden's performance is damning in itself. On which matter opinions can differ honestly. One way or the other, neither lends support to the lies promoted by Giuliani and the nut-bar Right.
 
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