UK - December 2019 General Election

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Do you have a cite for this? It would definitely surprise me if it was true.

AV is not proportional so it seems to lead to elections that are more or less the same if not even less proportional than the current FPTP system.

The only benefit of AV seems to be that it lets you express your preference for a smaller candidate before that vote is binned and given to your second or third preference.

 

[Vixen]

It is a fact that there are elements within the Scottish nationalist movement that are deeply racist, with a total hatred of the English. Most of them are not like that though - in the same way that most supporters of the Brexit party are not narrow minded bigots.

It's the Lib Dems themselves that are most bigoted. I find offensive their attitude that everyone who doesn't support their loony left-wing ideals must be irrational, racist or uncaring.

Left wing? Don't you mean quasi-conservatives? That shrill awful woman Jo Swinson showed her true colours when she refused to align with Labour t'other day. Truth is, LibDems are riding on a no-Brexit ticket as a means of coming into power. As tactical voting goes, I dare say the sandal wearing bearded GUARDIAN Extinction Rebellion supporters will be out in force to help them through.

My ward in London is a strong Labour ward but the LibDems did get in briefly a few years back. One of the first things they did was to stop the collection of doorstep recycling bins. As Sir Keir Starmer is the current incumbent I can't see him getting a majority of less than 24,000 no matter how tactically people vote. From not liking him, I now do. He sent me a long erudite and thoughtful letter in response to a communication I made to him, which deeply impressed me.

 

[Vixen]

All betting odds tell you is firstly how bookies think people will bet, and then how people are betting.

Reminds me of the Grand National. You have a bookies favourite and then you have hordes of people all betting on it as though that means it'll win.

 

[Vixen]

If it does not turn out well for Labor, then maybe, finally, they will see that Corbyn is a horrid leader for Labor.

The only people who think he is a horrid leader are the non-dom tabloid press, Tories and LibDems.

Funny dat.

 

[Rolfe]

Do you have a cite for this? It would definitely surprise me if it was true.

I'm sorry, it was some time ago. It surprised me too, but essentially first votes for smaller parties get transferred and even more votes then pile on to the "big two". It doesn't actually boost the chances of smaller parties at all, quite the reverse.

The only situation where it might help someone else is if very large numbers of people wanted an outsider to win but would otherwise be deterred from voting for that candidate because they weren't aware of the very large support the candidate commanded. It's not a very common or likely scenario. It certainly doesn't deliver any seats to parties with moderate levels of support.

 

[catsmate]

It's the latest left wing plot - an attempt to stop people using the English language.

Ah, the conspiracy theories flow...

 

[catsmate]

What a moronic thing to say. I have a greater understanding of politics than most other posters here - certainly greater than you.

It is a fact that there are elements within the Scottish nationalist movement that are deeply racist,

Made up crap.

It's the Lib Dems themselves that are most bigoted. I find offensive their attitude that everyone who doesn't support their loony left-wing ideals must be irrational, racist or uncaring.

More made up crap.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Sadly it's the same for me. However the current independent MP is Dominic Grieves and despite what a noisy anti-grieves would have one believe he's personally very popular.

I see it confirmed that the Lib Dems are not going to stand against Grieve.

 

[catsmate]

Uh, why should people who are NOT UK citizens be allowed to vote in a UK election?

Because they are part of society.
Many already can. The world is a rather more complicated place than many USAians understand.

In Ireland, for example, all residents regardless of citizenship or nationality are eligible to register to vote in local elections. Citizens of EU member states are allowed to vote in EU elections and will be allowed to vote in Dáil and Presidential elections in the near-ish future.
UK citizens are allowed to vote in all Irish elections, except for President and (where applicable) senators, and in referenda.

 

[catsmate]

People from 53 Commonwealth countries (incl a couple of suspended members) who are resident in the UK can vote in UK general elections. I don't see why EU citizens resident in the UK shouldn't have the same rights.

And Ireland...

 

[catsmate]

it would be hard to get a better example of the distortion than Scotland in 2015 GE. 56 of 59 seats went to the SNP who got a shade under 50% of the vote.

Still better than Belfast South.

 

[catsmate]

The only people who think he is a horrid leader are the non-dom tabloid press, Tories and LibDems.

Funny dat.

No. I'm an Irish social democrat and I think he's an ideological idiot. So do many, many, others. Including at least one self-identified Leninist of my acquaintance.

 

[Vixen]

No. I'm an Irish social democrat and I think he's an ideological idiot. So do many, many, others. Including at least one self-identified Leninist of my acquaintance.

A Leninist wouldn't like Corbyn because he is a parliamentarian, not a Marxist.

 

[catsmate]

A Leninist wouldn't like Corbyn because he is a parliamentarian, not a Marxist.

And because he's an incompetent idiot. Her words.

 

[Vixen]

And because he's an incompetent idiot. Her words.

Your friend sounds like a DM reading Leninist.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump in an interview tells the UK how bad Corbyn will be and we shouldn't vote for him.
Plus if we go for the Brexit deal it will be bad for any trade deal with the USA.

Also that Boris is the right man for the times and he should team up with Farage and they would become an 'unstoppable force'

 

[Andy_Ross]

Farage, 2016:
“How dare the US President interfere in UK politics!”

2019:
“Can we get the US President to come on my show and interfere in UK politics?"

 

[dudalb]

I presume that what was being suggested was that EU nationals who are now resident and working in the UK and meet some criteria to qualify get to vote.

Plenty of Scots were barred from voting in the Scottish Independence referendum because they were not resident in Scotland at the time. Decisions were made as to who got to vote in the Brexit referendum.

In the USA it's clear:You have to be a citizen to vote. If you are a permanent resident of foreign birth you are not allowed to vote until you swear the oath (after a certain number of years of residence) and become a citizen.
Don't you have absentee or mail in ballots in the UK?
And if you are a Citizen, you do not have to be resident in the USA to vote. you can vote using an "absentee ballot";in some countries the US Embassy actually sets up a voting booth for US Citizens.

 

[Garrison]

Trump in an interview tells the UK how bad Corbyn will be and we shouldn't vote for him.
Plus if we go for the Brexit deal it will be bad for any trade deal with the USA.

Also that Boris is the right man for the times and he should team up with Farage and they would become an 'unstoppable force'

So basically vote Labour?

I get that Corbyn is an idiot and that his stance on Brexit is exasperating, but if you look at the rapid shift to the right of the Tories, the plans to make it harder for people to vote, the effort to move workers rights and environmental standards from the legal to the political part of the Withdrawal agreement Corby may be the lesser evil.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

In the USA .

We aren't talking about the USA. Do a bit of research and get back to us with an informed opinion.