Electric universe theories here.

[Reality Check]

An insane lie from Sol88 - the Big Bang is not outdated or "mathamagical".

If the electric force is the dominant organising force on the universe, then why all the mathamagical constructs to save a Cleary outdated theory, the Big Bang.

An irrelevant and insane lie from Sol88 - the Big Bang is not outdated or "mathamagical".

This is the "Electric universe theories here." thread. The mainstream universe theory is the Big Bang + dark matter + dark energy model (Lambda-CDM model).
The Big Bang is textbook mathematics and physics. GR predicts that the universe must be contracting or expanding or static (but a static universe is unstable). We measure that the universe is expanding (the rate of expansion is debated).
A "Cleary outdated" lie when all of the evidence up to today is that the universe is expanding. That incudes the article Sol88 cited which measured a rate of expansion !

A stupid assertion from Sol88 - no rational, knowledgeable person thinks the electric force is the dominant organizing force on the universe.
A rational, knowledgeable person knows that the electric force between two charged objects is much larger than the gravitational force. They know that the universe acts extremely electrically neutral. All of the objects in the Solar System are measured to orbit as if they were affected by gravity only. The measured magnetic fields in galaxies are small. Galaxies never repel each other as predicted for like charged galaxies. They know that the predictions from a neutral universe match the real universe.

 

[Sol88]

true, so what?

So the Universe is full of electric fields and electric currents, the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Whoda thunkit!

 

[Sol88]

Black holes at the centers of these galaxies accrete gas and dust, generating high-energy jets visible in radio wavelengths, which accelerate electrically charged particles to high velocities

Multifrequency observations shed more light on the nature of radio galaxy MRC 2011-298

Really?

Oh, hang we have

“But based on our simulations, we’re able to propose a new mechanism that can potentially explain how these cosmic particle accelerators work.”

New mechanism??? Tell me more...

The simulations showed that when the helical magnetic field is strongly distorted, the magnetic field lines become highly tangled and a large electric field is produced inside the jet. This arrangement of electric and magnetic fields can, indeed, efficiently accelerate electrons and protons to extreme energies.

Ahh, tangled magnetic fields! Classic.

What are you able to tell this ignoramus about electric fields and particle acceleration? Ican then fill Frederico Fiuza in.

because

"The mechanism that creates these extreme particle energies isn't known yet," said SLAC staff scientist Frederico Fiuza, the principal investigator of a new study that will publish tomorrow in Physical Review Letters

still seems a little perplexed.

 

[JeanTate]

So the Universe is full of electric fields and electric currents, the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Whoda thunkit!

Sol88?

The Electric Universe is full of pure nonsense, such as the Sun is powered by giant inter-galactic currents, quasars which have redshifts inconsistent with their distances (indeed, ejected from other galactic nuclei), the Grand Canyon created by a lightning bolt from Venus ~4,000 years ago, the CMB as a forest of universe-spanning current filaments, gravitational lensing due to refraction by plasmas, etc.

Time to recommend this thread be moved to a more appropriate home, such as the Round File?

 

[jonesdave116]

So the Universe is full of electric fields and electric currents, the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Whoda thunkit!

Lol. Another bunch of science-free word salad.

 

[JeanTate]

Multifrequency observations shed more light on the nature of radio galaxy MRC 2011-298

Really?

Oh, hang we have

New mechanism??? Tell me more...

Ahh, tangled magnetic fields! Classic.

What are you able to tell this ignoramus about electric fields and particle acceleration? Ican then fill Frederico Fiuza in.

because still seems a little perplexed.

Repeat after me, the core dogma/holy scripture of the Electric Universe: the Sun is powered by giant inter-galactic currents, comets are solid sandstones and gneisses created by a lighting bolt from Venus ~4,000 years ago, and gravitational lensing is due to refraction by plasmas.

And: astronomical observations are worse than useless, because only the Electric Universe holy scripture is Truth.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet another lie from Sol88, tusenfem wrote abouta tearing instability in plasma

So the Universe is full of electric fields and electric currents, ...

Yet another lie from Sol88, tusenfem wrote that a tearing instability in plasma needs an electric current. That is nothing to do with EU delusions.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - this is mainstream science not EU delusions

Multifrequency observations shed more light on the nature of radio galaxy MRC 2011-298
...

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - this is mainstream science not EU delusions. Followed by a rant about the physics he cites !

ETA: Sol88 also has idiotic lies about the article -his quotes are not from that article and not about radio galaxy MRC 2011-298.
Tangled magnetic fields power cosmic particle accelerators is about the generation of cosmic rays from a simulation of magnetic reconnection in relativistic jets.
Efficient Nonthermal Particle Acceleration by the Kink Instability in Relativistic Jets

 

[Sol88]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - this is mainstream science not EU delusions. Followed by a rant about the physics he cites !

ETA: Sol88 also has idiotic lies about the article -his quotes are not from that article and not about radio galaxy MRC 2011-298.
Tangled magnetic fields power cosmic particle accelerators is about the generation of cosmic rays from a simulation of magnetic reconnection in relativistic jets.
Efficient Nonthermal Particle Acceleration by the Kink Instability in Relativistic Jets

Yup, massive electric currents and electric field too boot!

Read the article if you don't believe me.

 

[Sol88]

Repeat after me, the core dogma/holy scripture of the Electric Universe: the Sun is powered by giant inter-galactic currents, comets are solid sandstones and gneisses created by a lighting bolt from Venus ~4,000 years ago, and gravitational lensing is due to refraction by plasmas.

And: astronomical observations are worse than useless, because only the Electric Universe holy scripture is Truth.

Well, we have all the electric current and electric fields required for an ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Key points

Electricity plays a more significant role in the Universe than is generally accepted

Gravity plays a significant and important role, in the appropriate regime.
The Sun and stars are powered electrically by external currents (see Electric Sun theory)

Planetary surface features such as some craters, dendritic structures and rilles are caused by super-lightning (see electrical scarring)

Certain cosmic phenomena are electrical in nature, including:
Comet tails (See comets)
The plumes of Enceladus
Martian dust devils
Galaxy formation and dynamics (circumventing the need for black holes and dark matter)

No giant lightning bolts mentioned.

 

[tusenfem]

So the Universe is full of electric fields and electric currents, the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!

Nobody ever denies the presence of electric fields and currents in space physics.
This is, however, not a proof for the "electric universe" idea, because their presence does not make the total rubbish ideas of the EU gang true.

 

[Sol88]

Nobody ever denies the presence of electric fields and currents in space physics.
This is, however, not a proof for the "electric universe" idea, because their presence does not make the total rubbish ideas of the EU gang true.

Great!

The Electric Universe theory argues that electricity plays a significant and more important role in the Universe, than is generally accepted (see also “Electricity throughout the Universe“). The theory does not dismiss gravity.

When you get gravity worked out maybe would can discuss further.

Otherwise EM force is the dominate force in the universe.

 

[Sol88]

Nobody ever denies the presence of electric fields and currents in space physics.
This is, however, not a proof for the "electric universe" idea, because their presence does not make the total rubbish ideas of the EU gang true.

Great, now apply it to comets!

Guess what, no sublimation needed.

 

[tusenfem]

When you get gravity worked out maybe would can discuss further.

Maybe if you could get the electric force worked out, then we can discuss further. Do you really think that the gravitational attraction of two bodies is more mysterious that the electric attraction between two opposite charges?

Does F = G m1 m2 / r^2 look more mysterious than F = k q1 q2 / r^2.

That is something that I have never understood from the EU proponents, that "we first have to figure out gravity" when the electric force is basically no less mysterious, why do electric charges attract or repulse each other? What is doing that? Well "it's a field" yeah, but then gravity is also "a field" so what's the frakking difference? Why do the EU guys think they understand the electric force?

 

[tusenfem]

Great, now apply it to comets!

Guess what, no sublimation needed.

I will take you at your words, when you can show me the calculations how the currents and stuff create the observed and measured water. And please in detail and with numbers, thank you.

 

[Sol88]

Maybe if you could get the electric force worked out, then we can discuss further. Do you really think that the gravitational attraction of two bodies is more mysterious that the electric attraction between two opposite charges?

Does F = G m1 m2 / r^2 look more mysterious than F = k q1 q2 / r^2.

That is something that I have never understood from the EU proponents, that "we first have to figure out gravity" when the electric force is basically no less mysterious, why do electric charges attract or repulse each other? What is doing that? Well "it's a field" yeah, but then gravity is also "a field" so what's the frakking difference? Why do the EU guys think they understand the electric force?

Two things sport.

Can gravity attract or repulse?

So the very fact the electric force can do BOTH makes gravity a manifestation of the electric force.

Gravity A second cousin to the electric force.

Secondly

What I don’t get is the mainstream gravity centric mob don’t get basic electromagnetism?

I’m mean the stories linked to above are just outstanding in there ignorance.

...some mysterious force is accelerating these particle to tremendous energies....

Fair dinkum champ...

Latest one I’ve read no invokes tangled spaghetti like magnetic fields as the cause of the electric field and somewhere along the line an electric current the length of the jet is produced/sustained.


But first time of seen the electric field as the cause...

Electric Universe precursor...

 

[jonesdave116]

So the very fact the electric force can do BOTH makes gravity a manifestation of the electric force.

Huh? In what universe does that make any scientific sense? Only the electric one, I assume, where science is not their strong point!

 

[jonesdave116]

Latest one I’ve read no invokes tangled spaghetti like magnetic fields as the cause of the electric field and somewhere along the line an electric current the length of the jet is produced/sustained.

Show me where EU loons predicted jets from black holes. Nowhere. You see the word 'electric' and automatically think it has something to do with the idiotic woo that you believe. Wrong.

 

[jonesdave116]

Otherwise EM force is the dominate force in the universe.

Trivially false. No scientist is making such a claim. Only cranks. Therefore it can be ignored.

 

[jonesdave116]

Guess what, no sublimation needed.

Yes it is. And not a single scientist is claiming otherwise. The fact that it is observed kind of kills that stupid argument dead, doesn't it?