Jim Fetzer & Conspiracies

While mental fitness might have played a part in the most recently concluded trial, the facts show plainly that Mr Fetzer's entire career incorporated conspiracy-related allegations in one genre or another, with no material question raised as to his mental or intellectual competency. Fetzer's acquaintanceship with the truth and with sound investigative methods has been fleeting at best for decades, and we have tried to hold him accountable on the customary footing. His performance here in this forum certainly leaves much to be desired. Mr Fetzer's victims have a right to be pleased at the court's punishment, regardless of the amount. The judgment means this particular body of facts has a legal decision attached to it, and this pattern of facts now forms part of the legal landscape.

My point was strictly legal. My understanding of argumentation at law is that certain bodies of fact, if alleged, prreclude -- or "estop" -- actions that contradict them. For example, one of my tenants came to me last month and told me he wanted to change jobs and, due to payroll latency, would have to be late in paying October's rent. I wrote him a letter telling him I would waive the late fee accordingly for October. I am now legally estopped from attempting to enforce that provision under those circumstances since the tenant's decision ultimately to proceed with changing jobs may have relied upon my written promise not to enforce an otherwise enforceable provision of our contract to his detriment. And this would be the case even if he did not end up changing jobs because, in my haste, I did not condition the waiver upon the eventual facts. My tenant can keep his present job and pay his rent late for October without consequence because he has a relatively airtight defense in promissory estoppel. We pay lawyers because it's their job to remember all those important details in the moment.

My knowledge of the relevant legal doctrine is only that of a layman, so I'm probably applying it incorrectly here. It appears the plaintiff proposes to argue in the case against Alex Jones that Fetzer's (again, alleged and unspecified) mental unwellenss was so evident that Jones' error in relying Fetzer's scholarship constitutes either negligence or malice. Jones' own habitual behiavior makes it hard to argue he has a solid bedrock of judgment regarding mental wellness. But in any case, since Jones is not an expert in mental health, the plaintiffs would need to establish that Fetzer's mental state -- however characterized -- was so evidently untrustworthy as to make it negligent for any reasonable person to trust his judgment. Jones' defense is that his reliance on Fetzer satisfied his duty of care to the plaintiff. Therefore the reasonableness of that reliance is at issue in the case against Jones.

But I can see that same argument from the plaintiff importing against the element of defamation that requires a false statement purporting to be fact. If the allegation of fact is patently absurd, it is less likely to be believed as fact. "Jeffrey Epstein raped Mickey Mouse" is a (probably) false statement that, in form, resembles an allegation of fact. But it is not likely to be taken as fact because Mickey Mouse is evidently a fictional character and a reasonable person would therefore not believe the claim. The likelihood that a statement will be taken as fact by a third party would, in my lay estimation, bear on whether the statement is defamatory. If the plaintiff argues on the one hand that Mr Fetzer's mental state is such that no reasonable person should rely on him, this makes it hard to aver under different legal circumstances -- but the same body of fact -- that a reasonable person would accept his claims as putative reliable fact. The substantive principle of estoppel is that a party before the court cannot have his cake and eat it too.

This is the part where a real lawyer would have to come in and correct my theory. And hopefully carve out a more accurate and expository contour for this fact pattern. And I imagine one of those contours might say that if the claim itself is merely credible on its face then a reasonable third party will take it as fact, and does not have any duty to research the mental state of its claimant before the defamed party has a cause of action. Then that of course undercuts the plaintiff's case against Jones, whose defense would rightly be able to argue that Jones was not at fault in relying upon Fetzer if Fetzer's claims can be considered facially plausible. I'm wondering what the plaintiff's legal strategy is here. The summary judgment against Fetzer is evidence enough for me that his Sandy Hook claims were facially plausible and thus rose to the level required to constitute a false statement purporting to be -- and taken as -- fact. I wonder how that will play in the Jones case.

To sum up, this is purely a question of how the argument would work in two court cases incorporating the same body of facts. I don't propose to defend the actions of either Jones or Fetzer, nor do I believe either of them has acted in good faith, in good conscience, or in any sort of morally defensible way. Fetzer is a career conspiracy theorist and, as far as I'm concerned, deserves what he got. Jones is a professional conspiracy theorist and. in my opinion, a craven coward. Any time he is called upon to take legal responsibility for the effects of his incoherent rants, he disavows everything and runs and hides. He clearly does not have the strength of his supposed conviction. I hope this time he finally gets caught.

Now as to the size of the award and the ability of Fetzer to pay it if it is upheld on appeal, I side with trustbutverify. It's not the defendant's ability to pay that matters, but what price is publicly set for that degree of misbehavior. If the judgment were lowered to what Fezter could reasonably pay, a successor to Fetzer having deeper pockets might decide that that's just the cost of doing business and proceed undeterred. Now any publisher who contemplates publishing books questioning the authenticity of Sandy Hook knows he had better set aside at least half a million dollars in additional cost.
 
I think the point is not if Fetzer can pay the money or not, but that he had, legally, been totally humiliated and whateve reputation he has has been destroyed...except for his fellow conspiracy theorists.
BTW in the last couple of years he became a big Trump supporter. No surprise there.
 
I think the point is not if Fetzer can pay the money or not, but that he had, legally, been totally humiliated and whateve reputation he has has been destroyed...except for his fellow conspiracy theorists.BTW in the last couple of years he became a big Trump supporter. No surprise there.


Aside from his fellow conspiracy theorists, how much reputation did he have left?
 
Kevin Barrett has a different opinion.

https://www.unz.com/kbarrett/the-le...eeker-jim-fetzers-stalinist-style-show-trial/

Are you really surprised?

:blackcat:

God, what a bunch of BS.

I see Barett is furious that Conspiracy Loon is finally having to face the consequences of what he says. Kevin does not get that
A.Libel has never been protected speech and
B.Freedom of Speech means the you cannot be thrown in jail by the government for what you say ,not that you are free of facing the conseuqences of what you say.
 
And it Is amusing that so Many 9/11 Conspriacy Kooks who flew pretty much to the far left from 2001 to 2008 are now Trump supporters.
 
God, what a bunch of BS.

I see Barett is furious that Conspiracy Loon is finally having to face the consequences of what he says. Kevin does not get that
A.Libel has never been protected speech and
B.Freedom of Speech means the you cannot be thrown in jail by the government for what you say ,not that you are free of facing the conseuqences of what you say.

Correct. Freedom of speech does not mean the victims of one's attempts to organize a lynch mob should have no means of defense. What this crowd wants is not the freedom of speech, but freedom from consequences.
 
And it Is amusing that so Many 9/11 Conspriacy Kooks who flew pretty much to the far left from 2001 to 2008 are now Trump supporters.

They all had to abandon the Democrats after they got back in power and still didn't authorize another investigation. And of course the Obama birther bit became the new conspiracy theory that everybody was trying to chase down. And here's this celebrity TV guy saying they might have something here.
 
Indeed, I think conspiratorial thinking cuts deeper than partisan politics among some. They seem to be following the Conspiracist-in-Chief these days.
 
I'm confident there are people out there who will say that since a court (i.e., "the government") imposed a penalty for Fetzer's claims, "the government" has effectively infringed his free speech. I probably have no hope of explaining to them the difference between censorship and a common plea at law for actual injury suffered. Luckily I think we can relegate that sentiment to the farthest fringe. It's not my intent to kick that straw man.

What we see here is a common pivot. The crisis-actor claims clearly failed on the merits, which is usually something the conspiracy theorists don't want you to contemplate too closely. So they pivot to the outrageous oppression committed against a free speaker -- be the speech true or false, carefully researched or unthinkingly blurted off the top of one's head. And yes, this relies on the wrong-headed notion of First Amendment protected speech as the right to say anything one likes, and if someone doesn't like it then they must deal with it. It relies further on the group fantasy conspiracy theorists have of themselves as holding powerful interests to account. It's amazing the depth of iniquity one is prepared to indulge in as long as one is utterly convinced of the righteousness of one's cause.
 
They all had to abandon the Democrats after they got back in power and still didn't authorize another investigation. And of course the Obama birther bit became the new conspiracy theory that everybody was trying to chase down. And here's this celebrity TV guy saying they might have something here.

Birtherism was a really dumb Conspiracy Theory based on the work of Jerome Corsi, I wish I never debunked that idiot and his 9/11No Planer book, we wouldn't have Trump now if I hadn't. Trump was my fault been Trying to make up for it as best I Can.
 
Birtherism was a really dumb Conspiracy Theory based on the work of Jerome Corsi, I wish I never debunked that idiot and his 9/11No Planer book, we wouldn't have Trump now if I hadn't. Trump was my fault been Trying to make up for it as best I Can.

You consider your actions the end result without presenting any meaningful evidence. You are on an ego trip. ;)
 

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