2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II

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And for what it's worth (at least at this early stage)...

From: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...arren-tops-biden-in-3-latest-polls-2019-10-07
Democratic presidential hopeful Elizabeth Warren has overtaken rival Joe Biden in four out of five recent polls.... Warren, the Massachusetts senator, scores 26.6% support in a RealClearPolitics average of polls, just ahead of the former vice president’s 26.4%.

The next few candidates are Sanders, Buttigieg, Harris, and Yang, with between 15% and 2%.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Elizabeth Warren calls out Zuckerberg over new Facebook ad policies after his meeting with Trump

I'm mildly surprised that I haven't seen more of the Democratic candidates hammer at this.
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It only came out yesterday.
Here’s what we do know: Trump did indeed meet with Zuckerberg on Sept. 19 in Washington, D.C. We don’t know what they talked about. Something we do know, however, is that on Sept. 24, Facebook shared it would not fact check or remove ad content by politicians, even if said content violated Facebook’s rules. Basically: Even if it’s false, that ad can stay up on Facebook, as long as a politician bought it.
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That's some scary ****. It looks like Zuckerberg happily accepted millions from Trump for specious ads and got a twofur, Zuck doesn't want to see Warren elected because she's a threat to his empire.
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That's a strange thing for Facebook to do, for a couple of reasons.

First of all, after the 2016 elections, and all the scrutiny over things like Cambridge Analytica's misuse of data they skimmed from Facebook, you figure Facebook would be extra careful to at least give the appearance of wanting to be clean. Allowing ads based on false information will be another blow to their already questionable reputation.

Secondly, why do even more to piss off the democrats? Allowing Trump to purchase ads on facebook to promote his lies may give Trump some benefit, but there are strong indications that Trump may be headed to defeat in 2020, even with Facebook's help. The didn't like Warren before, how friendly do you think she'll be to facebook's interests if she wins the presidency despite Facebook hosting dozens of ads accusing her of all sorts of conspiracy theories?
 
Kestrel said:
Biden’s son isn’t running for office. Why the hell does this matter?
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All members of the tribes have to answer for the sins, real or hypothetical, for all sins of all members of their tribe and you cannot criticize the other tribe until every member of your tribe is 100% morally pure.
 
Hmm. I suppose this is worthy of note, too.

Elizabeth Warren's pregnancy discrimination 'scandal' is no such thing

If the goal was to smear Warren as a liar, it has backfired spectacularly. All over the country, women have spoken out to say this is how discrimination works

Personally, I don't think much of this particular attack attempt, regardless, for similar reasons to why I don't think much of the attempts to falsely claim that Warren falsely claimed Native American ancestry to get jobs. It's fairly certainly nothing more than a smear based on a very selective picking from the relevant facts.
 
Segnosaur said:
That's a strange thing for Facebook to do, for a couple of reasons.

First of all, after the 2016 elections, and all the scrutiny over things like Cambridge Analytica's misuse of data they skimmed from Facebook, you figure Facebook would be extra careful to at least give the appearance of wanting to be clean. Allowing ads based on false information will be another blow to their already questionable reputation.

Secondly, why do even more to piss off the democrats? Allowing Trump to purchase ads on facebook to promote his lies may give Trump some benefit, but there are strong indications that Trump may be headed to defeat in 2020, even with Facebook's help. The didn't like Warren before, how friendly do you think she'll be to facebook's interests if she wins the presidency despite Facebook hosting dozens of ads accusing her of all sorts of conspiracy theories?
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Because it's Facebook. Secretly violating norms is literally their business model. They have not and can not stop doing any of the sketchy crap they've been caught doing several times by now. Warren's called them out on it and basically said she's going to regulate the ethics into 'em sideways, so they're on Team Trump now whether they like it or not. And they do!
 
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Aridas said:
Hmm. I suppose this is worthy of note, too.

Elizabeth Warren's pregnancy discrimination 'scandal' is no such thing

If the goal was to smear Warren as a liar, it has backfired spectacularly. All over the country, women have spoken out to say this is how discrimination works

Personally, I don't think much of this particular attack attempt, regardless, for similar reasons to why I don't think much of the attempts to falsely claim that Warren falsely claimed Native American ancestry to get jobs. It's fairly certainly nothing more than a smear based on a very selective picking from the relevant facts.
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Why do you think this with such certainty? She described the situation very differently in one interview than she now describes it. "This is how discrimination works" might be true, but that has no bearing on the contradictory versions. Nor does the backlash.
 
varwoche said:
Why do you think this with such certainty? She described the situation very differently in one interview than she now describes it. "This is how discrimination works" might be true, but that has no bearing on the contradictory versions.
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She described it differently, yes. It's possible that she lied on one occasion, the other, or both, but as the article notes, the two descriptions are actually not mutually exclusive. Going further, even if she did lie on one of the occasions, we've got a rather limited range of reasonably believable reasons why, most of which are simply not grounds for condemnation of any sort.


varwoche said:
Nor does the backlash.
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I'm going to be a bit of a terrible person here and say something simple. I don't get what backlash there should be from this - for Warren, at least. That Warren might have lied, period, thus establishing that she's just another totally corrupt and untrustworthy politician? That if one assumes, like the right-wing smear machine does, that the worst reasoning that they think that they can get to stick to her is what should immediately be accepted as truth?
 
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Aridas said:
She described it differently, yes. It's possible that she lied on one occasion, the other, or both, but as the article notes, the two descriptions are actually not mutually exclusive. Going further, even if she did lie on one of the occasions, we've got a rather limited range of reasonably believable reasons why, most of which are simply not grounds for condemnation of any sort.
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I mostly agree -- "any sort" is a bit much if indeed she lied -- but here's where I have a problem as a voter who wants to see Trump defeated above all other priorities:

The way things are trending, there's a fair chance that Warren will be the nominee. I worry that she has a tendency to play loose with the facts about her personal bio, and more importantly, that's a sign of internal fragility that could manifest in the general. I want a candidate who conveys supreme confidence.
 
Belz... said:
Vote Trump, then! ;)
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Do I get a fee for being your straight man?

But as long as you mention, Trump doesn't convey confidence to me. I see that trait as superficial in the extreme. He conveys to me that he's an insecure baby.
 
varwoche said:
Do I get a fee for being your straight man?
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Wait, so this wasn't voluntary work? Where's my damned check?

But as long as you mention, Trump doesn't convey confidence to me. I see that trait as superficial in the extreme. He conveys to me that he's an insecure baby.
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Agreed 100%. He just thinks he conveys confidence. As someone said before, he's a weak man's idea of a strong man.
 
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varwoche said:
The way things are trending, there's a fair chance that Warren will be the nominee. I worry that she has a tendency to play loose with the facts about her personal bio, and more importantly, that's a sign of internal fragility that could manifest in the general. I want a candidate who conveys supreme confidence.
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Whatever tendency she has there seems really minor to me compared to Biden, tho:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...af3716-7292-11e9-9eb4-0828f5389013_story.html
 
The Dems need to nominate the candidate best able to take down Trump. Everything else is way down on the list.
I am not a big Biden fan but some of the comments here are realty cheap shots.
And indictive of the "we don't need no stinking moderates" attitude that, if it carries over into November 2020 will reelect Trump.
 
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varwoche said:
Do I get a fee for being your straight man?

But as long as you mention, Trump doesn't convey confidence to me. I see that trait as superficial in the extreme. He conveys to me that he's an insecure baby.
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I mentioned in another thread that Trump's recent demand that everyone apologize to him for the impeachment inquiry reminded me of the final episode of "Preacher", in which God was shown to be an insecure, needy whiner who wanted everyone to tell Him that they love Him, regardless of what He had done to them.
 
dudalb said:
And indictive of the "we don't need no stinking moderates" attitude that, if it carries over into November 2020 will reelect Trump.
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Plenty of moderates like Warren. It's one of the things that makes the "Bernie Only" camp hate her so much.

Independents like her, too:
https://www.dataforprogress.org/memos/battleground-favorability
Senator Elizabeth Warren had the highest net favorable ratings among the presidential candidates we tested.
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Independents in the battleground districts have a much more favorable opinion of Elizabeth Warren than Joe Biden.
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