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Hong Kong

rjh01 said:
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How do you get around the great fir walll? (Spelling errors deliberate so not to mention sensitive topics)

Great couple posts.
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There is no firewall in Hong Kong, only in mainland China. Feel free to spell korrectly. :)

Hong Kong (and Macau) are referred to officially as Special Administrative Regions (SAR).

Hong Kong specifically is run under the awkward-in-name and awkward-in-practice "One Country, Two Systems" paradigm, the idea being that its irrefutably part of China, but has its own government and judiciary that is supposed to be separate from the mainland Government. To what degree the government is in fact separate is largely what the protests are now about.

This different system means it doesn't have the firewall, has freedom of speech, free flow of capital, freedom of movement etc, but no proper freedom to vote.

When I first moved here, China had really opened up, had reformed in a lot of ways, and seemed to be 100% capitalist being Communist in name only. HK people looked on mainland China fairly benevolently if not ambivalently. There was little of the active dislike we see now.

In the last 10 years, particular since Xi took over it has gone the other way, and its autocratic tendencies have come back to the fore. Hence the feeling here is that China is slowly but surely infringing on these existing HK freedoms, and trying to make HK more like China. The extradition bill that started off this new round of protests is seen as just the latest instance of that unwanted influence. Even though the bill itself was introduced by the HK Chief Executive Carrie Lam, rather than imposed by China, Lam is seen as the PRC's lapdog, trying to curry favour rather than acting in the best interests of HK.
 
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dudalb said:
Which one are you talking about? We have two of them here who fit that description....
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That propaganda blog CE so much loves. The only thing I don't know, if author is just useful idiot (not many emigrants had such collapse) or if he is paid for that crap.
 
We are seeing a totalitarian regime expand across the world, particularly the Pacific, and the world is powerless to contain it. Think of it like climate change.
 
dudalb said:
Powerless or unwilling?
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New Zealand is powerless for example. There is implicit blackmail in every deal, criticism of China is near impossible. They are paying a pittance to tinpot dictators in the Pacific for long term "leases". New Zealanders' lifestyles are dependent on trade with China, so unwilling or powerless become interchangeable terms. This situation in Hong Kong makes me weep, people can hold Trump accountable and are doing so. But the supreme power and structure in China looks permanent and immutable, inevitably leading to complete world domination. Stewie will be watching keenly.
 
Samson said:
New Zealand is powerless for example. There is implicit blackmail in every deal, criticism of China is near impossible. They are paying a pittance to tinpot dictators in the Pacific for long term "leases". New Zealanders' lifestyles are dependent on trade with China, so unwilling or powerless become interchangeable terms. This situation in Hong Kong makes me weep, people can hold Trump accountable and are doing so. But the supreme power and structure in China looks permanent and immutable, inevitably leading to complete world domination. Stewie will be watching keenly.
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Uh, other countries are not quite a helpless as New Zealand.


If nothing else, the US,Russia, and India have pretty good size militaries.
 
Samson said:
But the supreme power and structure in China looks permanent and immutable, inevitably leading to complete world domination. Stewie will be watching keenly.
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Nothing endures forever. China's dictatorship is strong, but it is also brittle. It is in constant risk of collapse, and though it may yet last lifetimes, it is not eternal, and its dominance is not inevitable. Oft evil will shall evil mar. China is creating enemies even as it spreads its influence.
 
Ziggurat said:
Nothing endures forever. China's dictatorship is strong, but it is also brittle. It is in constant risk of collapse, and though it may yet last lifetimes, it is not eternal, and its dominance is not inevitable. Oft evil will shall evil mar. China is creating enemies even as it spreads its influence.
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Sooner or later The Mandate of Heaven will be withdrawn from the Chinese Government...
 
It seems the 'silent majority' in Hong Kong actually supported the protesters.

I wonder whether China will accept this result.
 
Hong Kong voters deliver landslide victory for pro-democracy campaigners

Carrie Lam says she will respect vote in which pro-democracy politicians are set to win control of 17 out of 18 councils

Hong Kong’s voters have turned out in record numbers to deliver a landslide for pro-democracy campaigners in local elections, handing them control of almost every one of the region’s 18 councils for the first time.

The results are a powerful rebuke to the government in a vote that was widely seen as a proxy referendum on the city’s protest movement.

Hong Kong’s chief executive, Carrie Lam, said her government would respect the election results and would “listen humbly” to the views of the public.

While Lam appeared to strike a conciliatory tone, Beijing warned that the territory would always remain part of China.

“Whatever happens, Hong Kong is always a part of China and any attempts to create chaos in Hong Kong or to jeopardise its prosperity and stability will not be successful,” said the Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, during a visit to Japan.

Both in absolute numbers and in turnout rates it was easily the biggest exercise in democratic participation that Hong Kong has seen, with many voters waiting more than an hour to cast their ballots.

When polls closed at 10.30pm on Sunday, nearly 3 million people had voted, representing more than 71% of the electorate and nearly half of Hong Kong’s population. Many had never voted before.

Pro-democracy politicians’ unexpected clean sweepwas a unanimous vote of no confidence in the government, analysts say.
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Vixen said:
Unfortunately, Carrie Lam is serving two masters. It is just a matter of time before the more powerful one dominates.
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Is she, though? It kinda sounds like she's already serving just the one.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
It seems the 'silent majority' in Hong Kong actually supported the protesters.

I wonder whether China will accept this result.
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No doubt somehow China has the personal details of the voters. If not you can bet this will happen. Did they wear facemasks into the polling booths and inside?
 
Here is a serious question. Did Trump effectively prevent a militiary invasion of Hong Kong by the mainland?
 
Samson said:
Here is a serious question. Did Trump effectively prevent a militiary invasion of Hong Kong by the mainland?
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Unknowable. China might still invade, and if they don't, we will probably never know why not. But China is vulnerable on trade, more so now than when Tienanmen Square happened, so threatened trade retaliation is certainly a big disincentive to an invasion.
 
Samson said:
Here is a serious question. Did Trump effectively prevent a militiary invasion of Hong Kong by the mainland?
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No, not at all, not in any way possible. The current Chinese administration under Dictator Xie has done whatever it feels like within what it regards as it's national territory. China is going to have to manage it's image more that it did when it massacred protesters in Tiananmen Square since it is on a massive diplomacy drive globally with its Belt and Road program. However it has also taken control of the South China Sea despite the rest of the globe protesting. Whatever Trump says is not going to sway them.
 
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