Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

[Vixen]

No-one wants him. Even the Queen said Charles will be King over her dead body.........

The history of kings named 'Charles' is not a happy one.

 

[Vixen]

And you believe that? And the UK is a Republic.

What you need to understand acbytesla is that the monarchy in the UK will never be abolished because it would upset the power balance of the largely unelected establishment (Lords, army, police, highest judges).

 

[Vixen]

It's remarkable that both Labour and the conservative party have apparently ran out of credible leadership alternatives at the same time. After Gordon Brown Labour managed to scrape up Ed Miliband from the bottom of the barrel. Since they could apparently not find any worse moderate candidate left to replace him the stage was left for extremists like Corbyn simply by default.

The same situation has played out in the Conservative party. After David Cameron there was Theresa May simply because no other candidate wasn't disliked enough, and after her Boris Johnson faced no serious challengers.

Corbyn is hardly 'extreme', except the non-dom Tory supporting tabloids deem him so. He is a parliamentarian and is about as marxist as Rees-Mogg on dope.

 

[Nessie]

The remarkable headline in today's Sunday Times;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...e-boris-johnson-will-tell-the-queen-fsbpsnjdc

"‘Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen

The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader"

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

On what planet is JC stopping Ken Clarke coming forward and syaing he has rhe support of thr rebel tories, lib dem and snp and only needs labour to step up?

Planet blame JC.

Well, firstly, nobody has blamed Corbyn for anything that Ken Clarke has or has not said, so this seems somewhat hysterical.

Secondly, it doesn't matter whether or not MPs scepticism of Corbyn is justified, the fact is that it exists and because of it he cannot command the confidence of the House. So the question becomes - if assigning blame is really the most productive way to look at the situation - is it the fault of that one person, or is it the fault of absolutely everybody else?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Is there some reason to think that further time to plan will be employed any more usefully or with any better results than the time they have had so far?

If someone other than a hardline Brexiteer is in charge, yes. All the problems we've had have stemmed from May's "red lines" and insistence that any Brexit must be hard.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Corbyn is not so much extreme as he is stuck in the 70s. I think it would do this country a lot of good to have the left-wing be truly left-wing again, rather than the re-heated Thatherism of Blair. It's just a shame that Corbyn is, well, Corbyn.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The remarkable headline in today's Sunday Times;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...e-boris-johnson-will-tell-the-queen-fsbpsnjdc

"‘Sack me if you dare,’ Boris Johnson will tell the Queen

The Speaker, John Bercow, has been proposed as a national unity leader"

Brecow could be good on his own merits, but would be a terrible idea politically. It'd only rile up the Tories, and lend itself to the narrative of an obstructionist coup.

Any caretaker PM would have to be someone that both the public and the Commons can potentially agree - at least in principle - is working for the good of the country, rather than trying to further their own agenda. Bercow is way beyond that, as illustrated by the way he's been treated by and portrayed by the Tories recently.

Once Brexit is done, one way or the other, people are going to have to live with it and accept it. I don't think someone like Bercow could do that, regardless of how he acts in the role. There's way too much baggage, and too many people would have to do too much climbing down.

It's basically the same problem as with Corbyn, except that Bercow can't petulantly take his ball home with him if he doesn't get his own way.

 

[Nessie]

All Johnson wants is Brexit, I think if he gets it, he will resign as PM, declaring his job done.

 

[Craig B]

The history of kings named 'Charles' is not a happy one.

Oh yes it is. As in the Merry Monarch etc. "He was the playboy monarch, naughty but nice, the hero of all who prized urbanity, tolerance, good humour, and the pursuit of pleasure above the more earnest, sober, or material virtues." That was Charles II. Perhaps his father was less fortunate. But Charles II was no longer absolute ruler, unlike his father. What will Charles III be like I wonder?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I think Johnson wants a no-deal Brexit, and power. I don't think he cares about leaving the EU at all, just what it can do to bring him wealth and power.

 

[Darat]

Brecow could be good on his own merits, but would be a terrible idea politically. It'd only rile up the Tories, and lend itself to the narrative of an obstructionist coup.



Any caretaker PM would have to be someone that both the public and the Commons can potentially agree - at least in principle - is working for the good of the country, rather than trying to further their own agenda. Bercow is way beyond that, as illustrated by the way he's been treated by and portrayed by the Tories recently.



Once Brexit is done, one way or the other, people are going to have to live with it and accept it. I don't think someone like Bercow could do that, regardless of how he acts in the role. There's way too much baggage, and too many people would have to do too much climbing down.



It's basically the same problem as with Corbyn, except that Bercow can't petulantly take his ball home with him if he doesn't get his own way.

Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?

 

[a_unique_person]

All Johnson wants is Brexit, I think if he gets it, he will resign as PM, declaring his job done.

You have got to be kidding.

 

[Vixen]

Corbyn is not so much extreme as he is stuck in the 70s. I think it would do this country a lot of good to have the left-wing be truly left-wing again, rather than the re-heated Thatherism of Blair. It's just a shame that Corbyn is, well, Corbyn.

Corbyn is only 'stuck in the 70s' because the SUN and the MAIL insist on harking back to the 70's whenever his name is mentioned, not to mention the Tory backbenchers who never miss a chance to refer to when 'Corbyn met XYX' [name your favourite terrorist representative here] in 1971.

Imagine if Amber Rudd smoking pot at uni - like most of them it seems - is constantly referred to in terms of her life as a wet-behind-the-ears undergrad., would you then be claiming 'she's stuck in the 80's'?

 

[Vixen]

Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?

Or even Dominic Grieve.

 

[Garrison]

Unless the Conservative MP's all throw their support behind it then Labour would be by far the largest party in this 'unity' government. The idea that they should agree to some Tory grandee or the leader of a minor party as PM is odd to say the least.

 

[psionl0]

In that case it would be the UR. Tourists visit Versailles even if there are no monarchs there, so I think the attractions of monarchs with their heads still attached, as objects for tourists, are overestimated. Once they're gone the availability of abandoned royal residences for tourist visits will even increase significantly anyway.

Not if the Tories flog them off to the highest bidder (or their biggest campaign contributors).

 

[Francesca R]

FIFY

I rather suspect the blame for GNU non existence (if there isn't one) will mostly go to the one who insisted on being PM. Not to any others who didn't support them.

Hopefully it won't get to this stage.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Has Ken Clarke thrown his hat into the ring?

Yes.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Corbyn is only 'stuck in the 70s' because the SUN and the MAIL insist on harking back to the 70's whenever his name is mentioned, not to mention the Tory backbenchers who never miss a chance to refer to when 'Corbyn met XYX' [name your favourite terrorist representative here] in 1971.

Imagine if Amber Rudd smoking pot at uni - like most of them it seems - is constantly referred to in terms of her life as a wet-behind-the-ears undergrad., would you then be claiming 'she's stuck in the 80's'?

No, it's because much of what he pushes for - making all workers part of unions, re-nationalising trains, power companies, etc., and so on - hark back to the Britain of the 70s.

And, to be clear, I think that many of his policies would be a good thing, and I would undoubtedly welcome many of them. I think, while not without its problems, nationalisation is much better for everybody except for a very few large companies, to give one example. By far the preferable option, in my opinion.

But I'm not sure how feasible these ideas are in the current political climate.These are ideas that were commonplace back in the 70s, but now are seen as radical and extreme. In order to get them enacted, or even generally accepted, the Overton window will have to move further to the left than it currently is. Corbyn seems to ignore this and instead to just act as if the political landscape now is the same as it was in the 70s and that these ideas aren't seen as radical.