There was testimony that standard police procedure and practice would have been for her to take a safe position and call for backup on her police radio. The best training in the world won't matter if somebody is too dumb to obey it.
Man shot, killed by off-duty Dallas police officer who walked into wrong apartment p3
- Thread starter DevilsAdvocate
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There was testimony that standard police procedure and practice would have been for her to take a safe position and call for backup on her police radio. The best training in the world won't matter if somebody is too dumb to obey it.
whoanellie
Graduate Poster
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I agree there is a good chance Guyger truly remembers giving commands that she never gave.
I understand where you are coming from. And the last thing I want to come across as is suggesting that rehab has no place in our justice system. Of course it does.
I'm just saying even if we had a magic machine that would could look into the future and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that if we let her go now that Amber Guyger would never so much as tear the tag off a mattress or illegally download an MP3 she should still pay for the murder of Botham Jean.
And I think questions as to what we are even rehabilitation means in very specific scenarios like this where the only thing to not do is... well not do the thing are hard to answers.
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Joe Random
Illuminator
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I watched part of the live testimony from the victim's mother, where she talked about taking him to college, etc. I understand why impact statements are important, but on one level I've always been uncomfortable with them. If the victim in this case hadn't been the literal choirboy as described above, would that make his murder any less serious? If he had been an unemployed Reefer Fiend(tm) should Qickdraw's sentence be lessened? It's almost like saying some people's lives are worth more than others. Which in an objective stance I guess you could say is true (the loss of some cutting edge cancer researcher will impact the world far more than when I kick off, for example). But in the context of a court of law all people really ought to be seen as equals in my opinion.
I don't have an answer to this one. It's nagged me for years, though, and hearing people talk about what an overall great guy the victim was brought that up again.
I don't have an answer to this one. It's nagged me for years, though, and hearing people talk about what an overall great guy the victim was brought that up again.
I've never liked impact statements. Too emotionally manipulative. The prom queen with a loving family, circle of close friends, and entire community that knew and adored her and the friendless, family less unlikable nobody deserve the same justice if all the other factors are equal.
Rolfe
Adult human female
The whole thing is simply beyond depressing. It's not unreasonable to feel pity for a young woman whi has completely ruined her life, even if she was a bit of a nasty piece of work. And the ruination of the victim's family and what they have lost scarcely bears thinking about.
I think the only thing that makes sense of it is to hope that this conviction contributes in some way to a changing of police culture and even gun culture. It's a small step and there's a long way to go, but at least it's a sliver of hope.
I think the only thing that makes sense of it is to hope that this conviction contributes in some way to a changing of police culture and even gun culture. It's a small step and there's a long way to go, but at least it's a sliver of hope.
Kinda reminds me of Gen. Mattis's famous advice to his troops: "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
Also: “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f--- with me, I’ll kill you all.”
Most important: “Engage your brain before you engage your weapon.”
https://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-trump-administration/2016/12/james-mattis-quotes-232097
Belz...
Fiend God
I'm not generally talking about punishment but about prison specifically. If you could have that magic machine, would you not rather have her do some good for the community?
Rolfe
Adult human female
Indeed, it seems that the unlikable bastard who happens to have family who loves him and will feel his loss is going to trigger a longer sentence than the lovely, blameless single person who may have many friends but doesn't have a mother or a sister or a daughter to come to court and weep.
Not to say that the fact that Botham Jean does seem to be have been a legit good person doesn't make this sad case even more depressing.
I'm just saying he would deserve the same amount of justice if he hadn't had any family members to stand in front of court.
I'm just saying he would deserve the same amount of justice if he hadn't had any family members to stand in front of court.
A crime is committed not only against the victim, but against the community. The community, particularly including the victim's family, stands up to say how they have suffered as a result of the crime. That needs to be part of the calculation. And in this particular case, the cops tried to smear the guy immediately after he was killed. It's important to establish that, unlike some kind of street dispute, he did absolutely nothing whatsover to contribute to his death.
If she heard noises and believed the apartment was being burglarised before the door was opened then she could not have known if there was one or multiple burglars in the apartment and she could not have known if the supposed burglar/burglars were armed.
Her story just does not add up.
It makes no sense to enter a supposed dark apartment not knowing whether or not those inside were armed/
She had a police radio to call for back up and she never even identified herself as a cop before entering the apartment.
How would Botham know she was a police if the room was dark?
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
And I believe this principle applies just as much to positive ("guilty") nullification as it does to negative ("not guilty") nullification.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I'm not sure I agree. In practical terms, it means that you get a lighter sentence for killing a disadvantaged person than for killing a privileged person. Kill a smelly hobo? Minimum sentence. Kill a beloved local businessman and father of five? Life without parole. This doesn't seem just, to me.
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
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Nobody testified to hearing "Hey! Hey! Hey!" other than Guyger.
Nobody (other than Guyger) testified to hearing any discernible spoken words. A close neighbor testified that he heard two different voices but could not tell what was being said.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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Does anyone know how long she had been on the job? How long had she been a police officer?
I really wonder how three things played into this.
The first was she was so new as a cop that she felt over her head.
The second was she was just stupid.
The third was she was insecure. Maybe because of her inexperience. Maybe because she was a woman doing what is more traditionally a man's job. There is really a macho attitude among cops. Calling for help is part of the training, but feeling the need to prove oneself is kind of universal.
Belz...
Fiend God
Is she claiming that Bill Cosby was in the room and she feared for her life?
And you are simply, uncomprehendingly wrong. The jury could not convict someone that they know is innocent because the defendant standing in front of them has been arrested, charged, arraigned, indicted, and prosecuted under the law, and a judge has allowed the prosecution to go forward despite what would no doubt be multiple defense requests to dismiss the case. Numerous levels of the judicial system have determined that there is sufficient evidence to prosecute and ultimately to convict. What do you think the jury could know that no one else knows? Jury nullification means that the jury has decided that someone doesn't deserve to be convicted of a crime despite the persuasive evidence against him. A case where there is no evidence against someone would not go to a jury in the first place.
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Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Or did she think it was Fozzie Bear, so she had to shoot before he got to the punch line?
Dave
Thermal
August Member
