Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed?

[theprestige]

Which is interesting in itself.

What can make a real difference can come from unexpected directions.

Yup. It'll be interesting if Attenborough makes a real difference. Likewise Thunberg.

 

[lomiller]

One of the criticisms of the celebration of Thunberg is that she's being celebrated for preaching to the choir. If the goal is to convert the people you're dependent on on for the change you need, then Thunberg is basically a no-op.

Appealing to the published science will never be effective in convincing people who don’t care about science. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother with it, otherwise we’d never address the claims of people who believe the earth is 6000 years old.

 

[theprestige]

Appealing to the published science will never be effective in convincing people who don’t care about science. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother with it,

On the other hand, it also doesn't really need to be celebrated as a "brave" campaign.

And, again, we're apparently in the throes of some kind of crisis, that demands drastic and immediate action. There's a gap that needs closing, that can't be closed by Thunberg's appeal to published science. You pointing out that it's okay to "bother with" it doesn't do anything to close that gap.

otherwise we’d never address the claims of people who believe the earth is 6000 years old.

This seems like a non sequitur, but okay. How's that working out for you? If I understand you correctly, appealing to science to address the claims of the young-Earthers is also a no-op.

 

[Darat]

Nobody is celebrating him as a brave campaigner, leading a Children's Crusade and making a real difference, either.

Not the children's crusade but certainly he is viewed as a brave campaigner making a real difference.

 

[theprestige]

Not the children's crusade but certainly he is viewed as a brave campaigner making a real difference.

In your opinion, what makes his campaign brave?

ETA: To me, bravery requires some sort of personal risk, knowingly accepted. Is that how you think of it?

 

[lomiller]

This seems like a non sequitur, but okay.

How so? Appealing to science won’t convince the true believers that the earth is more than 6000 years old. Likewise appealing to science won’t convince the true believers that we face a global catastrophe if we continue with business as usual wrt CO2 emissions.

Science will never convince the true believers, this doesn’t mean we abandoner science or stop telling people what the science has to say on the issue.

 

[Horatius]

On the other hand, it also doesn't really need to be celebrated as a "brave" campaign.

She's being personally bullied by the President of the United States, a man notable for his history of petty personal vendettas. Not to mention a few thousand of his deplorables. How is it not brave to stand up to that?

 

[theprestige]

She's being personally bullied by the President of the United States, a man notable for his history of petty personal vendettas. Not to mention a few thousand of his deplorables. How is it not brave to stand up to that?

How is it brave to ignore Twitter?

 

[dann]

To me, bravery requires some sort of personal risk, knowingly accepted. Is that how you think of it?

Is that the reason why Bush jr. called terrorist hijackers cowards?

 

[a_unique_person]

Putting climate change activism on the same footing as religious fervor is probably not a good strategy.

Well. I didn't. Not in any way. I was talking about accusations that Thunberg is terrifying young children. We have been doing exactly this for years.


I went to the climate protest, there were a lot of schoolkids there, they weren't acting all terrified.

 

[cullennz]

She's being personally bullied by the President of the United States, a man notable for his history of petty personal vendettas. Not to mention a few thousand of his deplorables. How is it not brave to stand up to that?

So back from strong strong stoic child, who has created it all her self with no influence from her parents and other adults with an agenda, to poor bullied child again.

 

[cullennz]

On top of everything else, that “journalist” who wrote that opinion piece on Thunberg is only 30 and not 69. Why should I take notice of such a young person....

You don't like a a young female's crtiticism of Greta's message.

I get it.

 

[theprestige]

Well. I didn't. Not in any way. I was talking about accusations that Thunberg is terrifying young children. We have been doing exactly this for years.

You're literally doing it right now. Religious zealots have been doing exactly this for years.

Religious zealots. Exactly this. You don't see the problem with doing exactly this thing that religious zealots do all the time?

I went to the climate protest, there were a lot of schoolkids there, they weren't acting all terrified.

Do you understand that outward behavior doesn't always accurately reflect internal state?

 

[Darat]

In your opinion, what makes his campaign brave?

ETA: To me, bravery requires some sort of personal risk, knowingly accepted. Is that how you think of it?

Ah you are using an oversimplification of the word brave....

 

[theprestige]

Ah you are using an oversimplification of the word brave....

No, I'm asking what they mean by the term, so we can discuss the issue in the sense that they intend, rather than in the sense that happens to occur to me at the moment. And I'm giving the sense that occurred to me, in case it's helpful in getting us on the same page.

 

[Ziggurat]

I went to the climate protest, there were a lot of schoolkids there, they weren't acting all terrified.

How many of them were just using it as an excuse to skip school? I know that's why I went to a student protest during highschool. Nominally it was about some budget cuts, but I didn't know or care about the details. It was just a nice change of pace for me.

 

[lionking]

How many of them were just using it as an excuse to skip school? I know that's why I went to a student protest during highschool. Nominally it was about some budget cuts, but I didn't know or care about the details. It was just a nice change of pace for me.

The march aup went on was held on the last day of the school term, where schools close down early and virtually no meaningful learning happened. They could easily have gone home or met up with friends, but they didn’t.

Jeez the lengths conservatives have been going to in this thread is breathtaking.

 

[cullennz]

Just watched that death metal video

Pretty humorous tbf

 

[Skeptical Greg]

No, I'm asking what they mean by the term, so we can discuss the issue in the sense that they intend, rather than in the sense that happens to occur to me at the moment. And I'm giving the sense that occurred to me, in case it's helpful in getting us on the same page.

I found it necessary to comment on this earlier..

One's definition of brave would be related to their exposure to what they consider conditions under which bravery was required...

For me, speech making in a relatively tolerant environment, wasn't one of those conditions.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's what we all waited for:

JEREMY CLARKSON The world may be getting hotter, Greta Thunberg… but having a meltdown isn’t going to help

It has everything that was to be expected, and then some advice for our resident Putin-traumatized Swedes:

And then pause for a moment to consider how soundly you sleep at night, knowing that adults are building and servicing and flying Sweden’s fighter planes. To keep you safe.

How dare Clarkson!!!!!!1