Man shot, killed by off-duty Dallas police officer who walked into wrong apartment p3

William Parcher said:
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Sometimes when people say "dark" they do not mean no light whatsoever.
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Here's a question: We know that she was wearing her full police gear, including pepper spray and a Taser. She was almost certainly carrying a powerful flashlight. If she was entering a dark space where she believed a threat was lurking, why wouldn't she use her flashlight? A bright light would have temporarily blinded an assailant and allowed her to better assess the situation. One more act of reflexive stupidity.
 
Bob001 said:
The elements of the various possible charges under Texas law have been discussed here. This is not like her gun went off while she was cleaning it. She deliberately entered the apartment, she deliberately drew her gun, she deliberately pointed it at what she herself claimed she only saw as a "silhouette" in a dark room without actually identifying her target, and she opened fire. Jean's death was the result of multiple deliberate acts, any one of which could have gone a different way. Way more than negligence.
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Admittedly, I haven't read entirely through the thread and for that I am sorry. I also am not familiar with Texas law. I am familiar with the idea of negligent homicide and that there are different levels of homicide depending on various factors. Am I wrong to believe that her state of mind isn't a factor?

I saw the case being discussed on the news last night and how one of the police investigators discussed that the layouts of the apartments are very similar and how it wasn't uncommon for people to make the mistake of entering the wrong apartment.
 
acbytesla said:
I saw the case being discussed on the news last night and how one of the police investigators discussed that the layouts of the apartments are very similar and how it wasn't uncommon for people to make the mistake of entering the wrong apartment.
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And how many of them winding up killing people? If it's really such an easy mistake to make she shouldn't go shooting people until she is sure she hasn't made that mistake.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
And how many of them winding up killing people? If it's really such an easy mistake to make she shouldn't go shooting people until she is sure she hasn't made that mistake.
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It's common for residents to go to the wrong apartment. But their key won't work and they won't get inside. Guyger was able to push this door open.

Your comparative scenario isn't applicable because other residents don't even get inside the wrong apartment. They will not get past the locked (wrong) door.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
And how many of them winding up killing people? If it's really such an easy mistake to make she shouldn't go shooting people until she is sure she hasn't made that mistake.
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I agree, she shouldn't have. Her mistake was disgusting and I cannot forgive her recklessness.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Now, care to answer my question? Why is it fair to convict her of a crime she didn't commit rather convict her for the one she did commit?
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I've said it before. IMO, she is guilty of Criminal Negligent (or Reckless) Homicide, but not Murder. I feel that she should be found guilty of CNH and that she should spend time in prison for that conviction.
 
William Parcher said:
I've said it before. IMO, she is guilty of Criminal Negligent (or Reckless) Homicide, but not Murder. I feel that she should be found guilty of CNH and that she should spend time in prison for that conviction.
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That's what I was thinking.
 
William Parcher said:
I've said it before. IMO, she is guilty of Criminal Negligent (or Reckless) Homicide, but not Murder. I feel that she should be found guilty of CNH and that she should spend time in prison for that conviction.
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To repeat, in Texas criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter are about doing something that you knew or should have known causes a risk to others who are killed as a result, but without intending that result. Driving drunk is one example; throwing a TV out of a high hotel window that lands on someone is another example one lawyer uses.

But:
Under section 19.04, manslaughter is the death of a person caused by another person’s reckless actions. Manslaughter is not an intentional killing, rather is a person dying because of another person’s reckless actions.

Manslaughter is a Second-Degree Felony. The range of punishment is 2-20 years in Prison, and up to a $10,000 fine.

Under section 19.05, Criminally Negligent Homicide is the death of a person caused by another person’s extremely careless behavior. Criminally Negligent Homicide is not an intentional killing, but rather a person dying because of another person’s irresponsible behavior.

Criminally Negligent Homicide is a State Jail Felony. The range of punishment is 180 days – 2 years in a State Jail Facility, and up to a $10,000 fine.
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https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/texas-penal-code/criminal-homicide/

She intended to kill the man. She said so herself. She considered no other option. She said so herself. She had no justification for her behavior except her claims of confusion. Murder is the right charge, for which she deserves to be convicted. (And criminally negligent homicide would get her at most two years in jail, not even prison. That would be a travesty.)
 
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Criminally Negligent Homicide is not an intentional killing, but rather a person dying because of another person’s irresponsible behavior.
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To me that sounds like a good description of what happened. Jean died because Guyger was irresponsible in finding her way to her own apartment. The degree of her irresponsibility is something I would describe as reckless and that is because she was carrying a gun and actually used it. Reckless irresponsibility. For that she should serve time behind bars.

She didn't intend to kill a man in his own apartment with any knowledge that he was a man in his own apartment.

Her behavior could serve as a definition of irresponsibility and recklessness, but without any intent whatsoever to kill a man in his own apartment.
 
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Bob001 said:
To repeat, in Texas criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter are about doing something that you knew or should have known causes a risk to others who are killed as a result, but without intending that result. Driving drunk is one example; throwing a TV out of a high hotel window that lands on someone is another example one lawyer uses.

But:

https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/texas-penal-code/criminal-homicide/

She intended to kill the man. She said so herself. She considered no other option. She said so herself. She had no justification for her behavior except her claims of confusion. Murder is the right charge, for which she deserves to be convicted. (And criminally negligent homicide would get her at most two years in jail, not even prison. That would be a travesty.)
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Well then, it's obviously not 1st degree murder. Unless your seeing some premeditation that I am not. Is there a 2nd or 3rd degree statutes?

Here's the thing. Police officers are trained to shoot to kill or at center mass. So what are the defense attorneys hoping for? Jury nullification?
 
There still isn't an answer for why some people would accept she has a valid claim to self defense but still want her to go to prison. That makes no sense.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
There still isn't an answer for why some people would accept she has a valid claim to self defense but still want her to go to prison. That makes no sense.
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Because she believed that she was defending herself. But her assessment was clearly false and negligent.
 
I seem to recall citations upthread explaining that there are charges less than Murder which do include prison time.
 
Bob001 said:
To repeat, in Texas criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter are about doing something that you knew or should have known causes a risk to others who are killed as a result, but without intending that result. Driving drunk is one example; throwing a TV out of a high hotel window that lands on someone is another example one lawyer uses.

But:

https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/texas-penal-code/criminal-homicide/

She intended to kill the man. She said so herself. She considered no other option. She said so herself. She had no justification for her behavior except her claims of confusion. Murder is the right charge, for which she deserves to be convicted. (And criminally negligent homicide would get her at most two years in jail, not even prison. That would be a travesty.)
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Imperfect self-defenseWP. Texas actually originated this doctrine. Which would reduce it to manslaughter, for a sentence of 2-20.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Prison isn't an option for that crime.
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From the Texas State Penal Code:

Sec. 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by criminal negligence.
(b) An offense under this section is a state jail felony.
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So it is a state jail felony:

Sec. 12.35. STATE JAIL FELONY PUNISHMENT. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an individual adjudged guilty of a state jail felony shall be punished by confinement in a state jail for any term of not more than two years or less than 180 days.
(b) In addition to confinement, an individual adjudged guilty of a state jail felony may be punished by a fine not to exceed $10,000.
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But she used a gun, so:

(c) An individual adjudged guilty of a state jail felony shall be punished for a third degree felony if it is shown on the trial of the offense that:
(1) a deadly weapon...was used...during the commission of the offense...and that the individual used...the deadly weapon
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So the punishment is a third degree felony:

Sec. 12.34. THIRD DEGREE FELONY PUNISHMENT. (a) An individual adjudged guilty of a felony of the third degree shall be punished by imprisonment in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for any term of not more than 10 years or less than 2 years.
(b) In addition to imprisonment, an individual adjudged guilty of a felony of the third degree may be punished by a fine not to exceed $10,000.
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