Canada Election: 2019

[psionl0]

Much ado about nothing. For **** sakes, people. It was an Arabian themed costume party.

Exactly. This is just feigned outrage; a storm in a tea cup. It is just people looking for any excuse they can find to justify their hatred of Trudeau.

 

[dann]

Much ado about nothing. For **** sakes, people. It was an Arabian themed costume party.

Exactly. This is just feigned outrage; a storm in a tea cup. It is just people looking for any excuse they can find to justify their hatred of Trudeau.

He might have avoided the scandal if he had used Ceylon tea instead of black shoe polish.
The color would have been much closer to Arabian.

 

[psionl0]

He might have avoided the scandal if he had used Ceylon tea instead of black shoe polish.
The color would have been much closer to Arabian.

I suspect that even white shoe polish would be considered just as "scandalous".

 

[Segnosaur]

Meh, whatever.

We all know Trudeau isn't a racist... not even close.

If this is what the Conservative party is throwing at Trudeau, then it's pretty damned obvious they're getting desperate at this point. Desperate because they know Ballbag Scheer sunk their boat the minute he opened his piehole and showed the world his true colours.

Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.

 

[Segnosaur]

Oh man, the poor Canadians! They must be so embarrassed!
To have their Prime Minister apologize in public for something he did!
The American president would never do something as humiliating as that!!!

There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

Now, I'm not black or colored and I'm not an American, but I don't really see what's the fuss with blackface. If a white person dresses up in blackface for Halloween or a black person does the opposite, no harm's done, in my opinion.

I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way. Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/world/brownface-blackface-yellowface-trnd/index.html

 

[Belz...]

Dressing up as someone he’s not is clearly not the issue. It’s the blacking up that people are having a problem with. Maybe you don’t have a problem with it but at least identify the issue correctly.

I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.

 

[Segnosaur]

As much as I detest Trudeau, this was about 20 odd years ago, before it got so controversial.

It is possible that certain things that were once seen as 'normal' eventually become problematic. (The use of certain sports team names, for example.). But I think you are wrong here.

Are you familiar with the Ted Danson/Whoopi goldberg blackface incident?

It took place in the early 90s. Danson was criticized over the incident. So even 20 years ago (when Trudeau was doing his little dressup), blackface would have been seen in a negative light by many.

 

[angrysoba]

I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.

Whatever people need to do, in your opinion, the point is the “blacking up”, not the impersonation of other people. That’s considered by many to be “beyond the pale”. Trudeau himself called it racist, so you’re just playing games by pretending not to even notice the issue.

 

[dann]

There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

You've been Poe'd!

I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

I might be insulted by the spelling!

Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way.

The old minstrel shows were very often racist ... as were the Amos 'n' Andy shows without the blackface.

Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

Trudeau wasn't even remotely attempting to do the same thing. The association may have been there, but it was probably only there for Americans with their history of slavery and Jim Crow and not for Canadians.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/world/brownface-blackface-yellowface-trnd/index.html

Context matters!
(Trudeau doesn't appear to be a racist, he didn't do anything racist, and I applaud him for apologizing anyway. Trump could learn a lot from him, including how to make Melania smile!)


ETA:

(It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

Trudeau actually was proactive. When he realized that some people found his use of blackface offensive, he apologized for instances that hadn't yet been brought to the public's attention!

 

[dudalb]

There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way. Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/world/brownface-blackface-yellowface-trnd/index.html

The Irony is that Negro performers had to put on blackface when doing the minstrel numbers.
Blackface has been dead for along time; Up until 1945 blackface numbers were common in Hollywood films, after 1945 they vanished. Oh, they still had minstreal numbers but they were done without the make up and with all racial connotations removed.
The 1954 Judy Garland version of "A Star Is Born" has one of the "whiteface" Minstrel numbers in it.

 

[dudalb]

Speaking of ironies, the chief of the VIking Tribe in my local SCA group is an African American, and no one sees anything strange about it.

 

[dudalb]

Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.

Trudeau is damaged goods;don't see even the Liberals win the election how he can govern effectively.

 

[dudalb]

I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.

Let's just look the other way and pretend it never happened...…….

Sorry, the world does not work like that.
And I have to wonder if the people making excuses for Trudeau would be equally saying it should not be an issue it it were a Conservative politician caught in the scandal.
The worst thing about blind party loyalty is you end up defending some really stupid crap out of loyalty.

 

[AnonyMoose]

Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.

Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans, leadership abilities.

But I guess that's too much to ask?

 

[dudalb]

Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans, leadership abilities.

But I guess that's too much to ask?

SO the character of a politician should not be an issue?
Donald Trump would just love you...….

 

[Segnosaur]

Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans,

I myself prefer to cast my vote based on policies and plans. If I happen to vote against Trudeau, its because I don't like his policies regarding the deficit, defense, etc.

But, keep in mind that that sort of mudslinging does come from all political parties. Even the Liberals have engaged in it.

...leadership abilities.

Ahhh... you se, for some people the whole 'blackface' thing does tie in to 'leadership abilities'.

To me, Trudeau has shown a pattern of being tone-deaf towards certain social issues... His clothing choices on his trip to India, his handling of a native protester who crashed a fundraising event, his complaints about female circumcision being 'barbaric'. Those types of things do suggest his 'leadership abilities' may be a bit lacking.

Now to me, that wouldn't necessarily disqualify him when I decide who to vote for (since as I pointed out, policy is a more important factor), but its not something I would completely ignore either.

 

[AnonyMoose]

SO the character of a politician should not be an issue?
Donald Trump would just love you...….

Context is everything.


We all know Trudeau is not a racist. If I suspected that Trudeau might be a racist prick, I would be taking this blackface thing a lot more seriously and in a completely different context.



As for your president, that a-hole is in a whole other category of his own.

 

[dudalb]

Context is everything.


We all know Trudeau is not a racist. If I suspected that Trudeau might be a racist prick, I would be taking this blackface thing a lot more seriously and in a completely different context.



As for your president, that a-hole is in a whole other category of his own.

Nice dodge.
Trump or Trudeau does not matter;you just basically said a candidate' character and behavior are not legitimate issues in an election.
Sorry, but your candidate got caught in a very embrassing scandle that, even if he is not a racist, certainly casts doubts about his judgement and his character, and that is legit issue in any election.
I repeat, would you make that defense if it was an opposition guy who got caught with his hand in the wringer?
I am not saying this should cost Trudeau his job;I am saying his judgement is here is a legitimate issue in an election.
This whole "only issues should matter" routine is always the cry of his supporters when a politican gets caught up in a scandle like this.
It is an asinine position, frankly.

 

[dudalb]

I have no horse in this race, but just think the idea that a candidate's character and judgement should not be an issue is a stupid idea.
If anything I hope Trudeau wins;partly because I find Mrs.Trudeau so easy to look at...

 

[Segnosaur]

To be honest, I'm not really sure if some of your comments were made to be serious or sarcastic...

Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

Trudeau wasn't even remotely attempting to do the same thing. The association may have been there, but it was probably only there for Americans with their history of slavery and Jim Crow and not for Canadians.

Its true that Canada doesn't have the same history with regards to slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc. But, we do share a lot of the same cultural elements with the U.S. (common usage of English, American TV regularly broadcast in Canada, etc.), and the U.S. is one of our biggest sources of immigrants. Plus, we have had our own issues with racism (including having multiple chapters of the KKK in Canada.)

For those reasons, the whole "blackface=wrong" should apply to both sides of the border.

Context matters!
(Trudeau doesn't appear to be a racist

Probably true. But then, the label 'racist' is rather... tricky. Is a person a racist if they make an occasional ethnic joke but have no problem working with or voting for a minority?

I certainly don't think Trudeau's policies are racist, which is more important than what the voices in his head say to him.