Canada Election: 2019

[qayak]

I will not be voting for a party who's leader is a bible-thumping preacher who's most deepest inner wish (if given the chance) is the possibility to drive the country in a direction I don't agree with.

I'm not willing to take that chance. Period.

Religious ideologies have absolutely no place in Canadian politics. I cannot and will not, in clear conscience, vote for a party that stands the risk of taking our country ten steps backward.

No amount of counterpoints will change my mind on this matter.... especially when those counterpoints come from a place of dishonest discourse (you putting words in my mouth).

So you won't be voting for Elizabeth May either. I fjnd her religious beliefs more troubling because she has stated they will be a big part of deciding her policies including revisiting abortion laws. No thanks.

 

[Segnosaur]

So let me get this straight... despite the fact that you said you wanted the election to "stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions..." (And hence your lack of concern over Trudeau's "Blackface"), you are dismissing voting conservative not because of any particular policies they may have (and I admit, there are several I don't like), but because Sheer "Makes your skin crawl".
Hey, I totally understand... I mean, some might consider it hypocritical to want to stick to the issues when it comes to the Liberals but take a different standard when talking about the conservatives, but I certainly don't.

The highlighted parts are all your own assumptions and you putting words in my mouth. You're attempting to read between my lines and running with those assumptions in an attempt to give your argument some credence.

What are you complaining about?

I said I agreed... I said it wasn't hypocritical to demand people pay attention to policy, etc. when it comes to the Liberals but use other standards when judging the conservatives.

And I don't care if the PC party claims they would not change direction under Scheer. A party leader can quite easily steer their party in any direction they choose, particularly if that leader becomes Prime Minister.

Yup... I remember the dark days of Harper... people said the same thing: He's got a "secret social conservative agenda". And what do you know? The first thing he did was annul all gay marriages and force all homosexuals into re-orientation camps!

No amount of counterpoints will change my mind on this matter.... especially when those counterpoints come from a place of dishonest discourse (you putting words in my mouth).

If you didn't want to be accused of a double standard, maybe you shouldn't have made a big deal of wanting people to concentrate on "plans, policies, solutions..." and instead said something like "people should worry about plans, policies, solutions... and secret agendas".

 

[Segnosaur]

American politics keeps dominating the news cycle, but there are still occasional bits of news about the Canadian election.

It looks like there's a little bit of nit-picking going on...

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-planes-carbon-offset-1.5306909
The Conservatives are calling Justin Trudeau a "carbon hypocrite" for flying two planes during the 40-day election campaign, emitting double the carbon emissions of other campaigns.

The Liberals claim that they are purchasing 'carbon offsets' to justify the use of 2 planes. Personally, I am skeptical about the use of such offsets, since they often don't work as expected. Still, I do recognize that, despite the bad optics of using 2 planes, the Liberals do have a stronger plan to combat global warming.

Not to be outdone, the Conservatives the conservatives have their own issues:

From: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/andrew-scheer-dual-citizenship_ca_5d979819e4b03b475f98e87a
The Globe and Mail reported Thursday that Scheer holds dual citizenship because his father was born in the U.S... The revelation sparked controversy because Scheer’s party criticized two former aspirants for the prime minister’s job — former Liberal leader Stephane Dion and former NDP leader Thomas Mulcair — because they both held dual Canadian-French citizenship.

And it looks like both leading parties have had problems with some of their candidates:

From: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...er_trending_qeesnbnu0l8&utm_campaign=trending
Trudeau faced multiple questions from reporters for why his party is standing by Liberal candidate Jaime Battiste after the Toronto Sun revealed his history of sexist, homophobic, and racist social media posts.
...
Conservatives urged Trudeau to drop Battiste as a candidate Saturday....The Conservative push comes a day after the party dropped Heather Leung as its candidate in the B.C. riding of Burnaby North–Seymour, following renewed controversy over her past homophobic remarks.

And it does appear that whatever harm had come to Trudeau following the reveal that he was really a black man trapped in a white man's body, the electoral advantage seems to have vanished. Polls show the Liberals are back in first place (or at least in a statistical tie with the conservatives) at 34% to 33.8%, and the chance of forming a majority or minority government currently sits at 69%.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

Strangely enough, there is also a poll that shows only 25% of voters think Trudeau deserves a second term as P.M. (which can be problematic, if it means potential voters become unmotivated... "I prefer the Liberals but don't care enough to go cast my vote because of the hair".

https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...nly-25-think-trudeau-should-get-a-second-term

 

[Segnosaur]

So, only a few short days before election day.

No big events happening at least not since Trudeau's Blackface controversy.)

Some polling information and projections:

- The current polling average from the CBC has the Conservatives beating the Liberals in national polling by 32%-31%. However, because of voter distribution, the Liberals are currently more likely to win an election. However, the most likely outcome is a minority government

- The Bloc Quebecois seems to be having a resurgence. They are likely looking at at least doubling their number of seats (going from 10 in the last election to between 22 and 49 this election.)

- The NDP seems to be doing a little better than they were earlier in the election. (Their support had dropped since the last election but seems to have return to about the same level.)

- Green party support seems to be dropping, and it looks like the People's Party of Canada is D.O.A.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

 

[Trebuchet]

I wish we could do elections the way you do. Here the campaigns last four years, if not longer.

 

[Segnosaur]

I wish we could do elections the way you do. Here the campaigns last four years, if not longer.

Well, campaigns do seem to be getting longer in some ways.

Technically the election doesn't start until the Prime Minister goes to the governor general to say "Lets have a vote, m'kay?". (When that happens various rules start to kick in.)

But, I have started to see election ads outside of the traditional campaign season (which are legal). Mostly its conservative attack ads on Trudeau, although I've seen some 3rd party ads attacking the conservatives too.

 

[Horatius]

So,I was in hospital all this week, so maybe I missed it, but is there a reason why the NDP seems to be moving up in the polls? It looks to me like most of the Liberal losses can be attributed to voters moving to the NDP, particularly since it seems like Conservative support has also declined overall.

And, yes, it's nice to see a nation-wide categorical rejection of the PPC.

 

[Steve]

So,I was in hospital all this week, so maybe I missed it, but is there a reason why the NDP seems to be moving up in the polls? It looks to me like most of the Liberal losses can be attributed to voters moving to the NDP, particularly since it seems like Conservative support has also declined overall.

And, yes, it's nice to see a nation-wide categorical rejection of the PPC.

IMO it is because Mr. Singh is being seen as the most honest and forthright of the leaders. I don't agree with some of his more socialist policies but I do see him that way on a personal level. Because of this I am still undecided where my vote will go on Monday.

 

[Segnosaur]

So,I was in hospital all this week, so maybe I missed it, but is there a reason why the NDP seems to be moving up in the polls? It looks to me like most of the Liberal losses can be attributed to voters moving to the NDP, particularly since it seems like Conservative support has also declined overall.

Probably a combination of a good performance in the recent debates by Jagmeet Singh, his personal appeal (as another poster stated), and fallout from Trudeau's blackface.

It should be noted that while the NDP is doing better now than it was at the start of the campaign, they aren't necessarily doing better than in the last election. I wonder if the previously low NDP polling numbers were a bit of an aberration, perhaps some latent racism "He wears a turbine so he's different", but the election has made people realize he's pretty much the same as everyone.

Oh, and speaking of Singh and racism... looks like two of the PPC candidates have tweeted a racist cartoon featuring Singh, Trudeau and Scheer, but Singh's turbine has a bomb in it.

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...te-tweets-cartoon-singh-bomb-turban-1.5307607
A People's Party of Canada candidate in Saskatoon is coming under fire for sharing a cartoon photo on Twitter that depicts NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh wearing a turban with a bomb on it...."I explained this to a few of the people that are calling me a racist now: I didn't realize there was a bomb in Singh's turban," Friesen said Thursday. "If you just look at it, it just looks like a tuque, right?" The cartoon features four major party leaders, with Singh alongside Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and PPC Leader Maxime Bernier in a grassy field split with a line that demarks "left" and "right."

Here's the thing... its possible for someone to overlook little details like that. But, then the big question is, where exactly would he have gotten such a cartoon? It doesn't seem like the type of thing to come across in the regular mainstream media so he must be getting input from somewhere that's less reputable.

 

[Belz...]

- The current polling average from the CBC has the Conservatives beating the Liberals in national polling by 32%-31%. However, because of voter distribution, the Liberals are currently more likely to win an election.

Normally I'd prefer a liberal government to a conservative one, though I'm yet to decide on my vote based on their platforms and candidates.

However, the most likely outcome is a minority government

Good. A little forced compromise is sometimes a good thing.

- The Bloc Quebecois seems to be having a resurgence.

Ugh. It's not the 70s anymore, people.

 

[Belz...]

Probably a combination of a good performance in the recent debates by Jagmeet Singh, his personal appeal (as another poster stated), and fallout from Trudeau's blackface.

It should be noted that while the NDP is doing better now than it was at the start of the campaign, they aren't necessarily doing better than in the last election. I wonder if the previously low NDP polling numbers were a bit of an aberration, perhaps some latent racism "He wears a turbine so he's different", but the election has made people realize he's pretty much the same as everyone.

Oh, and speaking of Singh and racism... looks like two of the PPC candidates have tweeted a racist cartoon featuring Singh, Trudeau and Scheer, but Singh's turbine has a bomb in it.

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sask...te-tweets-cartoon-singh-bomb-turban-1.5307607
A People's Party of Canada candidate in Saskatoon is coming under fire for sharing a cartoon photo on Twitter that depicts NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh wearing a turban with a bomb on it...."I explained this to a few of the people that are calling me a racist now: I didn't realize there was a bomb in Singh's turban," Friesen said Thursday. "If you just look at it, it just looks like a tuque, right?" The cartoon features four major party leaders, with Singh alongside Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer and PPC Leader Maxime Bernier in a grassy field split with a line that demarks "left" and "right."

Here's the thing... its possible for someone to overlook little details like that. But, then the big question is, where exactly would he have gotten such a cartoon? It doesn't seem like the type of thing to come across in the regular mainstream media so he must be getting input from somewhere that's less reputable.

*Turban.

If he wore a turbine as part of his religious obligations that would be AWESOME.

 

[Steve]

*Turban.

If he wore a turbine as part of his religious obligations that would be AWESOME.

one more way to fight global warming.

 

[Horatius]

Oh, and speaking of Singh and racism... looks like two of the PPC candidates have tweeted a racist cartoon featuring Singh, Trudeau and Scheer, but Singh's turbine has a bomb in it.

Okay, the racism, I get, but how the **** does he think Scheer is "left"?!?

*Turban.

If he wore a turbine as part of his religious obligations that would be AWESOME.

I was going to go with, "Yeah, no way am I voting for a jet for PM!"

But to address my own question, I heard one of the NDP's new ads while out filling my prescriptions, and it did a pretty good job of making him sound appealing. If I hadn't already voted, it might have swayed me in their direction.

 

[Belz...]

I was going to go with, "Yeah, no way am I voting for a jet for PM!"

Dammit. Now I can't help but imagine him flying under his own power.

 

[Segnosaur]

Normally I'd prefer a liberal government to a conservative one, though I'm yet to decide on my vote based on their platforms and candidates.

Does that mean you have totally discounted voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party?

However, the most likely outcome is a minority government

Good. A little forced compromise is sometimes a good thing.

Singh has already suggested that if there is a minority government he would be open to forming a coalition with the Liberals.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/...al-ndp-coalition-justin-trudeau-jagmeet-singh

I think what would be interesting is if the Bloc gets enough seats to prevent even a Liberal/NDP coalition from taking power, would they court the Bloc to add them to the coalition. (Last time such an alignment was suggested it seemed to result in some backlash.)

- The Bloc Quebecois seems to be having a resurgence.

Ugh. It's not the 70s anymore, people.

The 70s? Try the 90s... when Quebec came within a couple of percentage points of separating in the referendum.

To me, the problem is so many people think the issue of separation is dead and buried (and polls do show support for separation has dropped since the mid-90s.) But there are still a significant number of Quebec residents with more attachment to their province than their country. And in my opinion it wouldn't take much to throw us into another debate about separation: A charismatic leader, some outrage from English Canada that they can use to whip up support, and you have another close referendum.

 

[Segnosaur]

Oh, and speaking of Singh and racism... looks like two of the PPC candidates have tweeted a racist cartoon featuring Singh, Trudeau and Scheer, but Singh's turbine has a bomb in it.

*Turban.

D'oh!

 

[Belz...]

Does that mean you have totally discounted voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces party?

To be serious, I don't consider parties that have no shot at winning.

Singh has already suggested that if there is a minority government he would be open to forming a coalition with the Liberals.

Again, good. Cooperation sure beats mindless opposition, and it forces compromise.

I think what would be interesting is if the Bloc gets enough seats to prevent even a Liberal/NDP coalition from taking power, would they court the Bloc to add them to the coalition.

That would certainly be interesting but even as a Quebecer I find we've pulled on the sheets quite enough.

The 70s? Try the 90s... when Quebec came within a couple of percentage points of separating in the referendum.

No. In the 90s Quebec came within a single percentage point of a popular vote in favour of sovereignty. Whether that would've led to anything is a different matter, but personally I'm much happier with the results we got.

To me, the problem is so many people think the issue of separation is dead and buried (and polls do show support for separation has dropped since the mid-90s.) But there are still a significant number of Quebec residents with more attachment to their province than their country.

They're a minority, from what I can see, especially given the new generation and the arrival of immigrants. The situation just isn't what it was pre-Lévesque. There's really no case to be made that separation is a good idea.

 

[dudalb]

*Turban.

If he wore a turbine as part of his religious obligations that would be AWESOME.

If he is a Sikh...and the name Singh would indicate he is....then it IS a religious obligation.

 

[Segnosaur]

*Turban.

If he wore a turbine as part of his religious obligations that would be AWESOME.

If he is a Sikh...and the name Singh would indicate he is....then it IS a religious obligation.

I think you missed the joke.

I screwed up and used the word 'turbine' instead of 'turban'. So Sikhs have to wear a turban, but I doubt very many actually wear turbines. (Maybe there is some sub-sect of the religion?)

 

[Horatius]

To me, the problem is so many people think the issue of separation is dead and buried (and polls do show support for separation has dropped since the mid-90s.) But there are still a significant number of Quebec residents with more attachment to their province than their country. And in my opinion it wouldn't take much to throw us into another debate about separation: A charismatic leader, some outrage from English Canada that they can use to whip up support, and you have another close referendum.

You know, I can understand separatists voting for the Parti Quebecois provincially, because if they won, they'd actually have some power as the provincial government to press for changes that would benefit Quebec. But Federally? The BQ will never have any actual power, even if they "hold the balance of power" in a minority government situation. Exactly who, on the Federal level, would open themselves up to the charge of pandering to the separatists?

Voting BQ is essentially voting to make Quebec utterly irrelevant on a national level.