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Remembering 9/11...Republican style

eeyore1954 said:
I think if they do not show up when in session they are the ones taking advantage. The voluntarily take the job, know the pay, know the hours and should show up for work when they are supposed to.

I am sure the republicans are just as good at not showing up as the democrats.
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I guess only the independently wealthy like the landed gentry and aristocrats should even be eligible for running.
 
The NC "Education" Lottery was passed with similar shenanigans. To summarize:

-The NC Senate was very tight: 29 Dems to 21 Repubs.
-The lottery was passed by the House but enough Dems in the Senate opposed it to give a 2 vote advantage to the opposition.
-It was therefore not expected to pass and the President Pro-Tem publicly announced to the press and the Assembly that the session would end without any further votes being taken -so no vote on the losing lottery bill.
-In response, 2 Senators who were opposed to the lottery bill decided to take the last day off.
-The President Pro-Tem heard about this and decided that there would be a vote only on the lottery bill after all which ended up tied. The tie was broken by the Lt. Gov, a democrat and the lottery bill passed.

So it seems like this kind of thing is bipartisan and ethics seems to be an issue in the NCGA.
 
xjx388 said:
The NC "Education" Lottery was passed with similar shenanigans. To summarize:

-The NC Senate was very tight: 29 Dems to 21 Repubs.
-The lottery was passed by the House but enough Dems in the Senate opposed it to give a 2 vote advantage to the opposition.
-It was therefore not expected to pass and the President Pro-Tem publicly announced to the press and the Assembly that the session would end without any further votes being taken -so no vote on the losing lottery bill.
-In response, 2 Senators who were opposed to the lottery bill decided to take the last day off.
-The President Pro-Tem heard about this and decided that there would be a vote only on the lottery bill after all which ended up tied. The tie was broken by the Lt. Gov, a democrat and the lottery bill passed.

So it seems like this kind of thing is bipartisan and ethics seems to be an issue in the NCGA.
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That's an interesting and weird scenario.

"We don't have the numbers or the support to make a vote on this worthwhile. So no vote."

"No vote, huh? Sweet, three day weekend!"

"With a couple of our members taking the day off, it turns out we do have the numbers after all. The vote is back on!"

"... Wait, what? Oh, ****."

---

So much for the theory that after the trick works once, everyone will be smart enough to not fall for it a second time.

But now that whole "it was never officially announced according to the rules of the legislature" excuse makes more sense. Apparently it's part of how the game is played.
 
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johnny karate said:
A 14 year-old whataboutism from a biased source.



Skepticism at its finest. :thumbsup:
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When this incident is used to smear a whole party’s ethics, it isn’t whataboutism to point out that both parties engage in the same kind of unethical conduct. I agree this particular incident was unethical; I don’t agree that the GOP as a whole is uniquely unethical.
 
xjx388 said:
When this incident is used to smear a whole party’s ethics, it isn’t whataboutism to point out that both parties engage in the same kind of unethical conduct. I agree this particular incident was unethical; I don’t agree that the GOP as a whole is uniquely unethical.
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Indeed. Gaming the system to get your way is sickening and corrupt behavior. There should be extremely firm and clear rules on how the job should be done, and harsh penalties for noncompliance. Permanent disqualification from holding an elected or appointed government position for life for starters. And let's throw in quadruple taxation for fifty years, that should quell the rich ones.
 
xjx388 said:
When this incident is used to smear a whole party’s ethics, it isn’t whataboutism to point out that both parties engage in the same kind of unethical conduct. I agree this particular incident was unethical; I don’t agree that the GOP as a whole is uniquely unethical.
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Cool. Got anything other than a Republican legislator’s blog for a source?
 
johnny karate said:
Cool. Got anything other than a Republican legislator’s blog for a source?
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Yes. It’s called “reality.” Boom! [mic drop] ;)

Seriously, though. Are you disputing that the events unfolded that way? The basic facts are accurately recounted in that Republican legislator’s blog.

1. It was announced that there would be no more votes.
2. 2 Republicans took the last day off
3. They decided to hold the vote when that became known.

That’s just history. If you think the legislator is wrong and things didn’t happen that way, it’s on you to show that.
 
xjx388 said:
Yes. It’s called “reality.” Boom! [mic drop] ;)

Seriously, though. Are you disputing that the events unfolded that way? The basic facts are accurately recounted in that Republican legislator’s blog.

1. It was announced that there would be no more votes.
2. 2 Republicans took the last day off
3. They decided to hold the vote when that became known.

That’s just history. If you think the legislator is wrong and things didn’t happen that way, it’s on you to show that.
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Technically you're providing a positive claim (you're presenting what the legislator said as evidence), so it's on you to support the claim. If it did happen that way then there would absolutely be evidence of it in the local news or even national sites. It really shouldn't be all that hard to support.

I don't care either way, but if you present evidence it's on you to support it.

ETA: Here is what I found about it:

Senate Majority Leader Tony Rand, D-Cumberland, brought up the bill for consideration about 1:15 p.m. Senate leader Marc Basnight told WRAL he called senators back to Raleigh because he thought the votes were there to pass a lottery.

...

Two Republican senators who opposed the lottery -- Harry Brown of Onslow County and Robert Garwood of Wilkes County -- were not present at the Legislature for the vote. Both had received excused absences.
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xjx388 said:
It isn’t whataboutism to point out that both parties engage in the same kind of unethical conduct.
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That's exactly what whataboutism is. Like literally, dictionary definition level exactly what it is. You couldn't define whataboutism better than that sentence.
 
"If I prove you're a hypocrite that means I'm in the right morally, factually correct, and that the problem we were working to solve is no longer a problem" is destroying all levels of political discourse.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
That's exactly what whataboutism is. Like literally, dictionary definition level exactly what it is. You couldn't define whataboutism better than that sentence.
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Sure if the argument was “This was a bad thing that was done by the Republicans.” No argument from me on that point. That is not the argument here. The argument is “The Republicans are uniquely bad in this way.” That is a false argument and it’s appropriate to counter that with examples.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"If I prove you're a hypocrite that means I'm in the right morally, factually correct, and that the problem we were working to solve is no longer a problem" is destroying all levels of political discourse.
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That’s a strawman. It has nothing to do with hypocrisy but countering the notion that Republicans are unique. The whole political system is plagued by these problems, all the parties all the time.
 
xjx388 said:
Sure if the argument was “This was a bad thing that was done by the Republicans.” No argument from me on that point. That is not the argument here. The argument is “The Republicans are uniquely bad in this way.” That is a false argument and it’s appropriate to counter that with examples.
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*Head desk* Jesus Goddamn piss drinking donkey raping shoeless Christ.

Because everytime we go "The Republicans did a bad thing..." someone, *hint, hint, wink, wink, points at you*, runs in screaming about something the Democrats did.

You make the argument about comparisons, then complain that comparisons aren't the point.

If you and the other Conservative fanboys didn't demand that we prove the Republicans are "uniquely bad" this wouldn't be an issue.

I don't give a rat's anus if they are "uniquely" bad. A problem doesn't have to be DA WURSTESt AND ONLY EXAMPLE OF dA PROBLE EVAR! before we can talk about it.

Nothing can ever be goddamn improved because the tribes won't let anyone criticize them until the person doing the criticism is perfect.

****... that... noise.
 
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