There Will be Blood: Boston's Straight Pride Parade.

[Thermal]

I'm not doing that. The podcast isn't an argument, and I have no idea why you think I'm trying to present it as one. I've already given my argument twice, in very clear terms (modern-day neo-Nazis still argue for genocide and the creation of a fascist ethnostate), and it seems like others here are also arguing much the same thing. This isn't hard. Again, it contains evidence for that claim - the content of it is mostly made up of stuff prominent neo-Nazis and other white supremacists actually say, which is exactly the kind of thing you're asking for. Just as a start, here is a very easy to find quote from Richard Spencer:

“The ideal of a white ethno-state — and it is an ideal — is something that I think we should think about in the sense of what could come after America... It's kind of like a grand goal... It's a way of thinking about [how] we want a new type of society that would actually be a homeland for all white people.”

Your last clarification comment said "They just need to believe in a fascist ethnostate." Do you think the above statement counts?

No. Dickless Spencer seems to have no interest in the fascist part, which is the big part of nazism. It's just their idle fantasy about white world. No mechanism to make it happen, no plan, nothing. And that's what separates the fascist from the white supremacist. Actual political actions.

I listened to the podcast you recommended. Well, part of it. Got to about 17 minutes in and the speakers had still said not a damn thing (well, except some elementary rehashing). He was just starting to talk about the rise of the alt-right and other painfully basic topics when i started skipping ahead to see if they were going to get on with it. They appeared not to. In fairness, I can't stand podcasts. Guys talking for an hour and saying maybe two minutes of content, the rest is talk-radio babbling.

What was interesting is a link on the side, to James mason's SPLC page. From the very first paragraph, I see what I've been trying to say:

Mason grew dismayed by efforts within neo-Nazism to build large political parties and organizations, and he began to advocate for an underground, terroristic approach to catalyzing white revolution.

Yeah. Parties and organizations failing, so go for the street level social movements. That is what I am more concerned about. Not the fascist ethnostate part, which isn't going to happen, but the mind control at the grassroots level. That;s the threat. Not a new Hitler, but the guy next door. Not brownshirts, but t-shirts. The organized days are plus or minus behind us. It's guerilla time. So forget the 1930's and see what we have brewing now. It's a different animal.

 

[dann]

It's just their idle fantasy about white world. No mechanism to make it happen, no plan, nothing.

How do you imagine that anybody would go about making this "idle fantasy" happen?!
You're looking at this genocidal 'fantasy', and all you can think of is to trivialize it and play it down.
You could have accused Hitler and the Nazis of the same thing in 1933: They didn't have an actual plan to make it happen, so it must have been just an "idle fantasy", nothing to worry about, really.
The Wannsee Conference (Wikipedia) didn't take place till 1942!!! Until then, the useful idiots of the Nazis could persuade themselves that it was all an idle fantasy!
But I guess that you enjoy your own idle fantasy just like they did.

Not a new Hitler, but the guy next door.

The new Hitler is already in the White House, but fortunately he is a disorganized idiot. Since you like to imagine, you should imagine what would happen if they replaced him with somebody a little more organized. They are already crying for locking up political opponents, blaming the Lügenpresse, and the most radicalized of them are killing immigrants and other Volksfeinde.

 

[uke2se]

As I've said, I don't know of any who openly advocate it. None. That's why they usually call themselves neos or something similar. If someone does not advocate something horrific, it's fair to assume they don't, unless you can show otherwise. Do I have to demonstrate that Germans don't advocate Naziism? I mean hey, they used to, so we can assume they still do, right? That is the logic you present here.

Should I take this as a "no, I cannot provide a single self proclaimed Nazi that opposes genocide?

It's trivially easy to find those who wants genocide.

Seriously, this referring to some faceless generic Nazi is fruitless. Pick one of some kind of prominence, and we can scrutinize them. I really can't argue the specific beliefs of random caricatures.

Ok. Jeff Schoep, leader of the National Socialist Movement.

My wife is a psychologist. I have respect for the discipline. Luchog's paperback analysis trivializes a legitimate science. No professional would ever attempt to analyze someone's psyche from some online posts.

Seems professionals disagree with you.

That said, yes, I am immature. Not so immature as to pose as a psychoanalyst on a discussion board, though.

Who did that? Or was that just an attempt at an insult?

 

[luchog]

The new Hitler is already in the White House, but fortunately he is a disorganized idiot. Since you like to imagine, you should imagine what would happen if they replaced him with somebody a little more organized. They are already crying for locking up political opponents, blaming the Lügenpresse, and the most radicalized of them are killing immigrants and other Volksfeinde.

That's the most disturbing thing about the trolls and ostriches, they distract from the fact that this is already happening. The US Government is already locking "undesirables" up in concentration camps, where they are being killed, where CHILDREN ARE BEING KILLED by denying them sanitation, medical care, and adequate nutrition. For no other reason than they're trying to escape "****hole countries" and the problems of violence and starvation, and pursue the "American Dream" of a better life the same as anyone living in this country; but have the audacity to do so while wearing the wrong-coloured skin or believing in the wrong religion. And those who speak out against it are accused of being "alarmists", of promoting "crisis actors", of "manufacturing outrage", of "wanting to destroy America", and so on. Worse, they're often met with harassment, verbal assault, and even death threats; merely for daring to point out the problem and criticize the administration that is enacting it.

Sorry, but I am no longer willing to give anyone who denies or minimizes this problem the benefit of the doubt. By refusing to acknowledge the nature and scope of the problem, by attempting to minimize or even justify it (they're "illegals" after all), they're encouraging it, they're complicit. Just like the German populace was complicit in the rounding up and massacre of Jews and other "undesirables" by the Nazis through the same denialism and attempted justification.

It can happen here, because it has happened here in the past; and is happening here as we speak.

 

[Thermal]

Should I take this as a "no, I cannot provide a single self proclaimed Nazi that opposes genocide?

It's trivially easy to find those who wants genocide.

I'd have a lot of interview searching to do to prove that President Trump does not advocate, say, puppy raping. Spencer and his cronies have very publicly affirmed that they do not endorse any type of killing. But proving a negative is notoriously difficult. I'll concede that I am not willing to interview-mine to give you an example.

Ok. Jeff Schoep, leader of the National Socialist Movement.

This guy, you mean?

https://jeffschoep.com/jeffschoep/

Soooo...this is the guy whose beliefs you want to examine? Doesn't he not really qualify, not identifying as a nazi anymore?

He led the largest nazi group n the US...with a national membership of about 400. It's collapsing now, under the leadership of a black man (great guy). Yeah, not exactly quaking in my boots if this is what you are in fear of.

Seems professionals disagree with you.

Who is that? What credible professionals claim to correctly analyze the psyche of the writer of a few anonymous postings? Oh, and make sure they say the analysis can be carried out by someone who presents no credentials or expertise in the subject. You know, like the poster in question does.

Who did that? Or was that just an attempt at an insult?

When your posting style is to be arrogant and condescending, peppered with veiled insults, refusing to engage honestly, and inevitably flouncing when challenged, you don't really have a lot of room to accuse others of insults.

 

[Thermal]

How do you imagine that anybody would go about making this "idle fantasy" happen?!
You're looking at this genocidal 'fantasy', and all you can think of is to trivialize it and play it down.
You could have accused Hitler and the Nazis of the same thing in 1933: They didn't have an actual plan to make it happen, so it must have been just an "idle fantasy", nothing to worry about, really.
The Wannsee Conference (Wikipedia) didn't take place till 1942!!! Until then, the useful idiots of the Nazis could persuade themselves that it was all an idle fantasy!
But I guess that you enjoy your own idle fantasy just like they did.


The new Hitler is already in the White House, but fortunately he is a disorganized idiot. Since you like to imagine, you should imagine what would happen if they replaced him with somebody a little more organized. They are already crying for locking up political opponents, blaming the Lügenpresse, and the most radicalized of them are killing immigrants and other Volksfeinde.

dann, your just doubling down on looking backwards instead of forwards. Even Mason said the old way was not working, and he claimed to adopt the method that I am seeing.

But go ahead. Keep beard stroking about Weimar Germany. They will mow you down because you are looking in the wrong places. And every time you repeat OMG Trump is Hitler, you lose a few more observers to the hyperbole. Exaggeration is counterproductive.

 

[dann]

So you won't acknowledge that your brilliant argument that they don't have an actual plan isn't something that makes them different from Hitler and the Nazis in 1933.
I'm not surprised.
And I'm not surprised that you don't seem to know that the Weimar Republic was all over in 1933.

 

[Thermal]

So you won't acknowledge that your brilliant argument that they don't have an actual plan isn't something that makes them different from Hitler and the Nazis in 1933.
I'm not surprised.
And I'm not surprised that you don't seem to know that the Weimar Republic was all over in 1933.

What in the world are you talking about?? A lot of things make these guys different, not just not having a plan.

You say I seem not to know that the WR was over in '33. Yes, it obviously was, because Hitler was appointed Chancellor. We are talking about the run-up, so Weimar is the appropriate reference time. Nothing I said indicates a lack of awareness of this. So I ask you: please cite where I indicate being unaware of this. If you can't, I'll assume you are arguing dishonestly and just making things up.

 

[ArchSas]

Even Mason said the old way was not working, and he claimed to adopt the method that I am seeing.

...Which is a new plan. At this point, your argument seems to be that most of these people are just LARPers who can't actually accomplish their goals, so it's not worth worrying about them; what we should be really worried about are the stochastic terrorists. The thing is, those two groups you seem to think are different have largely the same goals, use the same rhetoric, and listen to the same people. Mason among them, who started as a bog-standard Rockwell acolyte, then shifted to promoting stochastic terrorism as a way of starting a race war and accomplishing the same basic goal that Spencer talks about. They want the same thing, Mason is just the one that's more upfront with his plan, by design (Spencer's goal is normalizing the movement and making it palatable to average people).

I guess fundamentally we just see this ideology differently. You're framing the "groups" as separate things and I don't think they are. To me, it doesn't matter if you're not a member of the AWD or some other faction that has committed terrorist attacks; saying you want the same goals and endorsing the message isn't different in any functionally meaningful way. That's not histrionics. Either way, you're supporting violent action for the ultimate goal of creating a fascist ethnostate, and I can't see that as inconsequential, because it's how people are being radicalized into the thing you do consider a problem. That's the way those groups work now.

 

[kellyb]

These lovely folks are just a couple hour's drive west of me:

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/shield-wall-network-swn

As part of SWN’s mission, Roper promotes “Project New America,” a plan to build Ozarkia, a white ethno-state that will start with “forty contiguous counties straddling the Arkansas and Missouri border that are already over 95% white.” Roper explains on his blog, The Roper Report, that after “evacuating” whites from “darkening” Louisiana, Mississippi and southern Arkansas, the SWN will gain control of city and county governments, institutions and organizations, and quickly expand into a large surrounding area that is “around 90% white.”

“After the United States breaks up,” Roper explains, “large nonwhite enclaves such as St. Louis, Kansas City, Chicago, and Memphis will be reduced through negotiation, evacuation, siege, conflict and cleansing.”

 

[plague311]

IMO, it's evidence they won't do it.

Why won't they? They've already tried with mass shooters, and running over protesters at events.

Doesn't matter. It's been established here and there are many examples of this, if you disagree with skeptic dogma, you're a "Trump supporter." Whether or not you support Trump has no bearing on this.

You play the victim better than almost anyone I know. You realize he was replying to a post where I literally said the exact opposite of what this post claims. Looks pretty foolish, doesn't it?

dann, your just doubling down on looking backwards instead of forwards. Even Mason said the old way was not working, and he claimed to adopt the method that I am seeing.

But go ahead. Keep beard stroking about Weimar Germany. They will mow you down because you are looking in the wrong places. And every time you repeat OMG Trump is Hitler, you lose a few more observers to the hyperbole. Exaggeration is counterproductive.

I just picked this post to quote because it was recent.

So if I summarize your argument, it comes to:

You know that there are some that DO want cleansing\genocide. You also believe that the majority do NOT want genocide\cleansing. You do NOT believe these people are a threat because they don't have the ability or numbers to do any major damage. In your opinion these people should be watched, but largely ignored.

Do I have that correct?

 

[smartcooky]

You play the victim better than almost anyone I know. You realize he was replying to a post where I literally said the exact opposite of what this post claims. Looks pretty foolish, doesn't it?

Yes it does, but its par for the course when you have a never-ending supply of straw.

 

[smartcooky]

These lovely folks are just a couple hour's drive west of me:

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/shield-wall-network-swn

Hah! Ozarkians want to have their own state? There is no doubt they would lower the average IQ in the area encompassing those "forty contiguous counties straddling the Arkansas and Missouri border" and will likely interbreed themselves into genetic oblivion in the process!

 

[dann]

What in the world are you talking about?? A lot of things make these guys different, not just not having a plan.

You were the one who claimed that there was no reason to take them seriously since they didn't have a proper plan.

You say I seem not to know that the WR was over in '33. Yes, it obviously was, because Hitler was appointed Chancellor. We are talking about the run-up, so Weimar is the appropriate reference time. Nothing I said indicates a lack of awareness of this. So I ask you: please cite where I indicate being unaware of this. If you can't, I'll assume you are arguing dishonestly and just making things up.

You wrote this as a comment to my post mentionin 1933, i.e. when the Nazis came into power in Germany (without a real plan for how to carry out their genocide), and 1942, the year of the Wannsee Conference:

But go ahead. Keep beard stroking about Weimar Germany.

 

[dudalb]

I can't be bothered, the jerks fixated on the One True Definition of Nazi have ruined this thread. I suggest all others abandon the thread and let the miscreants invade Russia in winter on their own.

Who exactly is a Nazi/Racist is the problem we have here.
I am conviced, from the tone of their posts,that some people would define as a Nazi or racist anybody who is not on the left wing of the political spectrum.

 

[plague311]

Who exactly is a Nazi/Racist is the problem we have here.
I am conviced, from the tone of their posts,that some people would define as a Nazi or racist anybody who is not on the left wing of the political spectrum.

Cool story bro, anything to back it up (like the evidence presented by those "some people" you're referring to) or just...no on that?

 

[kellyb]

Who exactly is a Nazi/Racist is the problem we have here.
I am conviced, from the tone of their posts,that some people would define as a Nazi or racist anybody who is not on the left wing of the political spectrum.

Can I get a specific example (a quote with link to it) of this "tone"?

 

[Checkmite]

Mass Supreme Court: Judge Rollins "had no authority"; protester's arraignment expunged.

 

[mgidm86]

That's the most disturbing thing about the trolls and ostriches, they distract from the fact that this is already happening. The US Government is already locking "undesirables" up in concentration camps, where they are being killed, where CHILDREN ARE BEING KILLED by denying them sanitation, medical care, and adequate nutrition. For no other reason than they're trying to escape "****hole countries" and the problems of violence and starvation, and pursue the "American Dream" of a better life the same as anyone living in this country; but have the audacity to do so while wearing the wrong-coloured skin or believing in the wrong religion. And those who speak out against it are accused of being "alarmists", of promoting "crisis actors", of "manufacturing outrage", of "wanting to destroy America", and so on. Worse, they're often met with harassment, verbal assault, and even death threats; merely for daring to point out the problem and criticize the administration that is enacting it.

Sorry, but I am no longer willing to give anyone who denies or minimizes this problem the benefit of the doubt. By refusing to acknowledge the nature and scope of the problem, by attempting to minimize or even justify it (they're "illegals" after all), they're encouraging it, they're complicit. Just like the German populace was complicit in the rounding up and massacre of Jews and other "undesirables" by the Nazis through the same denialism and attempted justification.

It can happen here, because it has happened here in the past; and is happening here as we speak.

I hope you feel better now that you got that huge load of bull excrement off your chest. You make it sound like citizens are being rounded up and shot. Talk about fear mongering.

Incarcerating people who sneak into our country illegally is not really comparable to exterminating Jews. How many people have "BEING KILLED" here?

Do you think "brown people" are the only ones being turned away and this only happens at the southern border?

Are illegal white people allowed in no questions asked?

Didn't think so. Sick of these screaming rants.

 

[dudalb]

I hope you feel better now that you got that huge load of bull excrement off your chest. You make it sound like citizens are being rounded up and shot. Talk about fear mongering.

Incarcerating people who sneak into our country illegally is not really comparable to exterminating Jews. How many people have "BEING KILLED" here?

Do you think "brown people" are the only ones being turned away and this only happens at the southern border?

Are illegal white people allowed in no questions asked?

Didn't think so. Sick of these screaming rants.

Too bad you were not alive in the 1850;s. You would have made one hell of a good Know Nothing.