MAGA brats mock Native American with "build the wall" chants

xjx388 said:
I see.

If some kids wear a red hat with the words “Make America Great Again” they get no quarter; they are quite obviously racist white supremacist brats. Even though they were basically just standing there -certainly not using any offensive terms.

But if you use the words you used it’s OK because you are liberal and you are just paraphrasing some hypothetical racists. Even though those words are offensive and racist in and of themselves,

As I said, it’s interesting.
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Referring to other people's racism isn't racism.
 
Craig4 said:
I'm calling voting for Trump racist regardless of the motivation.
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Which makes your position ridiculous.
Even if I'm being unfair (which I'm not) why do you care? They're just Trump supporters.
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Dehumanizing your opponents is exactly what racists do. Congrats!
 
Craig4 said:
I'm calling voting for Trump racist regardless of the motivation. Even if I'm being unfair (which I'm not) why do you care? They're just Trump supporters.
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When you say that voting for Trump is racist you are explicitly talking about the motivation for the vote, and ascribing it to racism. To then say that you call it racism regardless of the motivation is simply to admit that you aren't interested in the truth of your statement.

You then go on to say that we shouldn't care because they are just Trump supporters. And why shouldn't we care about whether or not the disparaging things we say about Trump supporters are true? Well, because they're racist...

Go to 10.
 
xjx388 said:
What other people? No one in this thread used those terms.
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There are people in the world who haven't posted in this thread.

ETA I've highlighted the people whose racism was being referred to in the quote:

Foolmewunz said:
Your bog variety bigot is a simple minded sort and first falls back on the visual cues. Skin color/hue is one of them. If they want to hate on towel heads or beaners or spicks who don't have physical cues, they merely have to do a little book-learning to find out that they're different and thus worthy of hatred.

"See, we hate everyone who's not us, not just the ones we can spot from visual cues" is not a stellar argument. To yer average bigot, the skin color is just a quick-think bonus. Don't have to figure nothing out 'cuz they're darker.
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If you want to argue that such people are very uncommon, that's fine. But he was certainly referring to them, regardless of whether or not he's right about how common they are.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Of course you are. After all, why do motives even matter? It's all about which side you're on.
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Yes, at the moment, you're either on the country's side or you're not. Among other things, not being on the country's side means you're for someone who in addition to being a traitor is also a racist. That makes his supporters racists as well.
 
Roboramma said:
When you say that voting for Trump is racist you are explicitly talking about the motivation for the vote, and ascribing it to racism. To then say that you call it racism regardless of the motivation is simply to admit that you aren't interested in the truth of your statement.

You then go on to say that we shouldn't care because they are just Trump supporters. And why shouldn't we care about whether or not the disparaging things we say about Trump supporters are true? Well, because they're racist...

Go to 10.
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You can't support a racist for president because he's good for your 401K and not be racist yourself.
 
Craig4 said:
I'm calling voting for Trump racist regardless of the motivation.
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Then by the same token you can be called a racist as well.

Even if I'm being unfair (which I'm not)
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Calling someone by a word that is entirely related to their motivation while ignoring their motivation absolutely is unfair.

why do you care?
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Why do I care about accuracy and reality? Oh, I don't know...

They're just Trump supporters.
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Why stop there? If you're willing to ditch reality and human decency when it applies to your political foes, why not go out and shoot them in the head?

I suppose since I hate Hitler and his ilk I could say that the man was an alien from Saturn. After all, factual accuracy is so passé.
 
Craig4 said:
Yes, at the moment, you're either on the country's side or you're not. Among other things, not being on the country's side means you're for someone who in addition to being a traitor is also a racist. That makes his supporters racists as well.
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If you vote for someone who is a vegetarian, that makes you a vegetarian as well! :rolleyes:

You can't support a racist for president because he's good for your 401K and not be racist yourself.
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Of course you can, since your taxes HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.
 
Craig4 said:
Yes, at the moment, you're either on the country's side or you're not. Among other things, not being on the country's side means you're for someone who in addition to being a traitor is also a racist. That makes his supporters racists as well.
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I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "the country". And what exactly do you imagine this "country's side" even is, if the people in that country are split on the issue roughly 50/50?
 
Ziggurat said:
I'm pretty sure you don't speak for "the country". And what exactly do you imagine this "country's side" even is, if the people in that country are split on the issue roughly 50/50?
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We aren't 50/50 split on this. Loyal Americans in polls outnumber disloyal Americans. Trump's approval rating is not at 50 percent and you know full well that loyal Americans outnumber Trump supporters in all reputable, scientific polls. I wish the disapproval numbers are higher but it is what it is.
 
Roboramma said:
When you say that voting for Trump is racist you are explicitly talking about the motivation for the vote, and ascribing it to racism. To then say that you call it racism regardless of the motivation is simply to admit that you aren't interested in the truth of your statement.
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Not necessarily. Something can be racist if its effect is to promote racism. Motivation doesn't need to enter into it.

For example, when my sister announced her engagement to someone who wasn't white, my grandmother opposed the marriage and cried for days over it. She wasn't motivated by hatred of non-white people, her concern was for how people would treat my sister and her children. The effect is still racist even though her motivation wasn't.

In this case if someone acknowledges Trump's racism but votes for him because he's going to stack a Supreme Court to overturn Roe V Wade (or whatever reason) they're essentially their issue, whatever it may be, is more important to them than racism.
 
Belz... said:
Only if you define racism as something else entirely. Why would you do that rather than use a more correct term?
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Uhm, I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one to declare that which promotes racism is itself racist.

I know it adds a layer of complexity that some people won't be comfortable with, but it is a complex issue, isn't it?
 
Mycroft said:
Uhm, I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one to declare that which promotes racism is itself racist.
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No, and you're not the only one who's wrong about this. Words mean things, and the expansion of this particular one into near-meaninglessness is counter-productive.

I know it adds a layer of complexity that some people won't be comfortable with, but it is a complex issue, isn't it?
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It really isn't.

How indirect does the effect need to be for the cause to stop being racist? If I buy an appartment building and demolish it to build a train station, and as a result down the line fewer locals can find places to live, and they happen to be black, was my purchase racist? If not, what's the cut-off?

That's why the actual definition is useful and clear: if you generall think another 'race' is inferior or worthy of contemp or violence, then you're a racist. Racism is not the same as bias, and it's not the same as negative effects on specific groups.
 
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