Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

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Craig B said:
Most of Ireland left the Uk in 1922, forcing the UK to change its name from "UK of GB and Ireland" to "U.K. Of GB and N Ireland" which indicates that the rest of Ireland had left the UK. That area later (in 1949) declared itself to be a Republic and on that ground alone must have left the United Kingdom.
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Didn't France leave? The title of monarchs used to include 'King/Queen of England, Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland and France'. Maybe it was wishful thinking, or just a small area of France. Brittany or something. It was 'our' first colony iirc.
 
Nessie said:
I was wrong to say it was never part of the UK, as in United Kingdom because, for a while, formally it was. But it was never a uniting of Kingdoms, a unification of a monarchy, or parliament.

The circumstances of Scotland becoming part of the UK and if it leaves, are very unlike Ireland's circumstances.
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That is true. Let us hope that one of the differences will be that Scotland leaves the union peacefully, and without bloodshed. But all countries are different one from another in important ways. What I was disputing with you is your incorrect assertion that no country has ever left the United Kingdom. That is untrue, and saying that Scotland entered (and may leave) the union in a different way from Ireland is to say nothing of importance.

Of course it will, and one hopes it will, so horrible was the experience of Ireland under British rule, and so bloody has been its departure from that dominion. We may also hope that Scotland will not be dismembered by partition in the course of its exit from the British union.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
The leader selected under the rules of parliament followed the rules of parliament. I don't understand what the problem is.
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Prorogation is not a rule it is an arcane custom to give the illusion of democracy, when in fact, the police and the army are unelected and there to protect the 'state'/monarchy from the revolting peasants.
 
Vixen said:
Didn't France leave? The title of monarchs used to include 'King/Queen of England, Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland and France'. Maybe it was wishful thinking, or just a small area of France. Brittany or something. It was 'our' first colony iirc.
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I don't think there was a United Kingdom then. Wasn't it under the reign of Mary Tudor that the last bit of France freed itself? I seem to remember something about her saying she would die​ with Calais engraved on her heart.
 
Vixen said:
Prorogation is not a rule it is an arcane custom to give the illusion of democracy, when in fact, the police and the army are unelected and there to protect the 'state'/monarchy from the revolting peasants.
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Okay. You guys should really write this **** down rather than going off memory.
 
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Vixen said:
Didn't France leave? The title of monarchs used to include 'King/Queen of England, Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland and France'. Maybe it was wishful thinking, or just a small area of France. Brittany or something. It was 'our' first colony iirc.
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Was part of France a colony of England, or was England a colony of part of France?
 
Vixen said:
Didn't France leave? The title of monarchs used to include 'King/Queen of England, Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland and France'. Maybe it was wishful thinking, or just a small area of France. Brittany or something. It was 'our' first colony iirc.
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I think the situation was different. The Hundred Years' War involving France and England - Scotland was a close ally of France - was triggered by the king of England claiming to be the rightful monarch of France by the ordinary laws of inheritance, and that the French king in Paris was an illegitimate usurper.

Prior to that the English kings had been peers of France in their role as Dukes of Aquitaine, and this was accepted by French monarchs as normal and legitimate. Long after the Middle Ages kings of England kept up their Royal claim, but during the short truce in the Napoleonic war known as the Peace of Amiens, 1802, English monarchs finally abandoned this pretention as part of the short lived peace treaty. It had become a dead letter anyway.
 
BobTheCoward said:
The leader selected under the rules of parliament followed the rules of parliament. I don't understand what the problem is.
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Because power doesn’t belong to the party leader, it belongs to Parliament. As a rough analogy in the US this is equivalent to the President suspending congress so he exercise congressional powers without them there to say otherwise.
 
lomiller said:
Because power doesn’t belong to the party leader, it belongs to Parliament. As a rough analogy in the US this is equivalent to the President suspending congress so he exercise congressional powers without them there to say otherwise.
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I don't know what it is an equivalent of because the president wouldn't be violating custom, they would be violating a written rule.

I have just been made aware that the process, used annually, to prorogue parliament is not actually written down?

Is there even a document that establishes the office of prime minister?
 
Vixen said:
Didn't France leave? The title of monarchs used to include 'King/Queen of England, Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland and France'. Maybe it was wishful thinking, or just a small area of France. Brittany or something. It was 'our' first colony iirc.
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Ever hear of the 100 Years War?
 
Looks like Brexit will cause issues with the flu vaccine

Doctors and NHS leaders have warned that a no-deal Brexit would make it "likely" there will be a delay in flu vaccine supply this year.

They say the EU departure date coincides with the winter season in a way that creates "a perfect storm for the NHS".
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49487770

Given the demographics of those who voted Brexit and those that receive the flu vaccine, there's some bitter irony right there :(
 
Giz said:
Was part of France a colony of England, or was England a colony of part of France?
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IIRC, the Normans invaded and conquered England (1066, Harrying of the North) which meant that they colonised England, but still had land in France. They then settled in England and in effect became English, so if anything their colony was now the Norman land in France, until King John lost it all by the 1200s.
 
Nessie said:
IIRC, the Normans invaded and conquered England (1066, Harrying of the North) which meant that they colonised England, but still had land in France. They then settled in England and in effect became English, so if anything their colony was now the Norman land in France, until King John lost it all by the 1200s.
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Not really.

It was Eleanor of Aquitaine who brought most of the English crown's lands in France.
 
Nessie said:
IIRC, the Normans invaded and conquered England (1066, Harrying of the North) which meant that they colonised England, but still had land in France. They then settled in England and in effect became English, so if anything their colony was now the Norman land in France, until King John lost it all by the 1200s.
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The claims of English monarchs to be the rightful monarchs of France is rather later than that. It dates from the Edward III in 1340 who claimed the throne by inheritance under French laws of royal succession. The Hundred Years' War was fought to make good this claim, unsuccessfully in the long run.
 
It might be an option to just get France to invade again and remove King Boris the First.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I don't know what it is an equivalent of because the president wouldn't be violating custom, they would be violating a written rule.
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Laws don’t need to be written nor is doing so a guarantee against a constitutional crisis. The most effective constitutions are the ones make the principles clear instead of trying to write out every possible scenario. In the UK the principle is clear, Parliament is the highest authority.
 
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