The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 29

[Methos]

I've seen the $2 million PR campaign claim by the PGP all over the internet but I've yet to see a single credible source for it. I suspect it originated on PMF or TJMK. Perhaps Vixen would care to provide evidence of said monetary expenditure? You know, actually back up this claim?

I don't really care if it cost $2 million or not. The point is whether this is yet another PGP factoid or not.

Back from the snipe hunt
The "million dollar campaign" was made up by Mignini during the rebuttals on September 30th, 2011 (page 27/28):

Lei che ha a disposizione una struttura pubblicitaria, ho letto, che è costata ma credo che sia una cifra in difetto, sino a ora mi dicono ma certamente è molto di più, un milione di Dollari.

Well, since it has been some time since 2011, someone on TJMK decided - IIRC in 2015 or 2016 - that by then it must have been at least 2 million (I'm not going to snipe hunt for that )

But dottore Mignini's rebuttals are also the origin of the "private jet"... (page 73):

Abbiamo parlato ... addirittura abbiamo sentito di un areo privato già pronto per partire per gli Stati Uniti. Io vi dico che l a famiglia Kercher ha problemi per trovare biglietti per arrivare davanti a voi lunedì mattina per ascoltare la sentenza che riguarda la loro figlia.

Just for the record:
There's also this one from dottoressa Comodi on page 56:

Sono giovani, ma anche Meredith lo era. Sono giovani ma hanno ucciso, sono giovani ma hanno ucciso. Hanno ucciso per niente e è per questo che devono essere condannati e essere condannati al massimo della pena che per fortuna in Italia non e la pena di morte.

 

[acbytesla]

Pretty much the same for me. It's interesting to check in and see what's new but not so much seeing the same old PGP lies over and over again. I am curious what Italy will do with the ECHR ruling so I will continue to lurk and occasionally post.

I agree that continually revisiting the details of the case is pointless. Knox and Sollecito were rightfully finally and definitively acquitted of the murder/rape of Kercher because there was no credible evidence that they had committed the crime.

One remaining activity - and it may proceed very slowly - is the execution phase of the ECHR case Knox v. Italy regarding the violations of her rights and any further legal actions that Amanda Knox or the Italian authorities may pursue in Italy to seek revision of her conviction for calunnia and redress for her unjust detention and legal expenses.

There may also be an ECHR application pending against Italy from Raffaele Sollecito relating to the allegedly unfair denial of compensation by the Italian courts for his unjust detention and legal expenses.

For the case Knox v. Italy, the following is a summary from the Council of Europe Committee of Ministers, Department of Execution of Judgments of the ECHR:

"KNOX v. Italy
Leading | Case | 76577/13 | Pending | New Case | Judgment date: 24/01/2019 | Final judgment date: 24/06/2019

Case Description:

The case concerns the lack of an investigation into allegations of ill-treatment by the police in 2007, during the questioning of the applicant, a young woman of foreign nationality and language, subsequently convicted for malicious accusation in the context of criminal proceedings concerning the murder and rape of her flat mate (violation of Article 3 in its procedural limb).

The case also concerns the restriction on the applicant’s access to legal assistance during her questioning by the police, which the European Court found to have had irretrievably impaired the overall fairness of the proceedings (violation of Art. 6 §§ 1 and 3 c)) and the inadequate assistance provided to the applicant by an interpreter during the police questioning (violation of Art. 6 §§ 1 and 3 e)).

Status of Execution:

An action plan or report is awaited."

Source: https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECIdentifier%22:[%22004-52517%22]}

I'm usually mad when I find myself responding to Vixen. That is mad at myself. I know her nonsense doesn't matter and somehow she suckered me down her rabbit hole. I'm still a little curious about Amanda and Raffaele and how it all turns out. I use to worry more about Amanda as she always seemed more vulnerable, but now I worry more about Raffaele.

And here we are talking about money. Imagine how hard this would have been if the two didn't have the resources to fight this injustice? I know if this had happened to me I would have been screwed. It's unfair that the government doesn't reimburse them. The measly amount the ECHR awarded Amanda is nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[Stacyhs]

My goodness, Mignini sounds like he read the Trump playbook! This is his google translated statement:


"She who has an advertising structure at her disposal, I read, which has cost but I believe is a figure in default, so far they tell me but it certainly is much more, a million Dollars."

Sounds just like Trump's "I read somewhere", "People are saying", "I've been told" whenever he is just making crap up.

Google translation of Mignini's second statement:

"We talked ... we even heard of a private aircraft ready to leave for the United States. I tell you that the Kercher family has problems finding tickets to get ahead of you Monday morning to hear the sentence about their daughter."

As for the 'private plane' bit, where Mignini heard that was the Kerchers' slimeball lawyer, Maresca.

 

[Methos]

My goodness, Mignini sounds like he read the Trump playbook! This is his google translated statement:


"She who has an advertising structure at her disposal, I read, which has cost but I believe is a figure in default, so far they tell me but it certainly is much more, a million Dollars."

Sounds just like Trump's "I read somewhere", "People are saying", "I've been told" whenever he is just making crap up.

Google translation of Mignini's second statement:

"We talked ... we even heard of a private aircraft ready to leave for the United States. I tell you that the Kercher family has problems finding tickets to get ahead of you Monday morning to hear the sentence about their daughter."

As for the 'private plane' bit, where Mignini heard that was the Kerchers' slimeball lawyer, Maresca.

Well, I think this one is what dottore Mignini read or had in mind, it's dated June 17th, 2009:
Amanda Knox defence costs near bankrupt family
Seems to be the origin of the "million dollar" thing:

Curt Knox said the family had "mortgaged their house, everything we own and blown our retirement funds" to cover the costs which he said were spiralling towards $1 million.

 

[Stacyhs]

But Mignini is specifically referring to the "advertising structure" (PR agency) and not to the costs of what the Knox/Mellas families had put out overall for the trial, etc. which is what Curt K. was talking about.

"She who has an advertising structure at her disposal, I read, which has cost but I believe is a figure in default, so far they tell me but it certainly is much more, a million Dollars." (Mignini)

"Curt Knox said the family had "mortgaged their house, everything we own and blown our retirement funds" to cover the costs which he said were spiralling towards $1 million." (Curt Knox)

 

[Numbers]

Well, I think this one is what dottore Mignini read or had in mind, it's dated June 17th, 2009:
Amanda Knox defence costs near bankrupt family
Seems to be the origin of the "million dollar" thing:

I believe from the 17 June 2009 Evening Standard article quoting Curt Knox and from Amanda Knox's claim in Knox v. Italy for compensation for her family's expenditures for her defense that they indeed finally totaled well in excess of $2 million.

The guilters, following Mignini's perversion of the truth - as part of his guilt hoax - attribute the expenditures to a public relations campaign.

In the inquisitorial judicial system, which was only modified to a more adversarial system in Italy starting with the 1988 reforms, only a token defense was permitted. Thus, to some Italians, including prosecutors and judges, who were educated during or influenced by the inquisitorial system, the adversarial defense now guaranteed by the Italian Constitution and the European Convention of Human Rights may seem like a kind of public relations campaign.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to back up her claim of the '$2 million PR campaign'.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to back up her claim of the '$2 million PR campaign'.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/716695d65d200ead83.png[/qimg]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to admit she was wrong about how Amanda flew home.

 

[TomG]

It was Brocci (When Innocence Doesn't Matter, kindle position 1102):


I haven't found that quote in her testimony so far... Maybe Hendry is mistaking Gioia Brocci for Paolo Brocchi (one of the lawyers whose office was broken into). He made some statements about clothes on top of glass in his testimony.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.c...-Testimony-MC-Brocchi-Palazzoli-Chiriboga.pdf

Perhaps Ron Hendry has made a mistake in this instance; however, the pro-guilt wiki claims that "Four witnesses including two officers of the State Police testified that the glass from the broken window was on top of the displaced items indicating that the room had been ransacked prior to the window being broken." So far of the people you mention are Filomena R, Luca Altieri, Battistelli and Marco Zaroli, none of these are state police, with Battistelli being a postal cop. I'm curious to get to the bottom of who the cops were, if they ever existed.

Hoots

 

[Matthew Best]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to admit she was wrong about how Amanda flew home.

I'm still waiting for Vixen to admit she was wrong

 

[Methos]

Perhaps Ron Hendry has made a mistake in this instance; however, the pro-guilt wiki claims that "Four witnesses including two officers of the State Police testified that the glass from the broken window was on top of the displaced items indicating that the room had been ransacked prior to the window being broken." So far of the people you mention are Filomena R, Luca Altieri, Battistelli and Marco Zaroli, none of these are state police, with Battistelli being a postal cop. I'm curious to get to the bottom of who the cops were, if they ever existed.

Hoots

The "two officers of the State Police" are Battistelli and Marzi. The "Postal Police" is a division of the Polizia di Stato (State Police).

 

[LondonJohn]

The "two officers of the State Police" are Battistelli and Marzi. The "Postal Police" is a division of the Polizia di Stato (State Police).

And all this stuff about glass being on or amongst Romanelli's clothing/belongings in her room is moot in any case, since it's absolutely impossible to know with any degree of clarity what the condition of Romanelli's room was prior to around 8.30pm on the night of the murder.

Romanelli herself has been (IIRC) somewhat ambiguous and inconsistent over this matter. And since a) she went into her room only shortly after the Postal Police first arrived and searched around for things, b) she allowed herself to become convinced early on that Knox and Sollecito were involved - including the "staged break-in" theory - and c) it's objectively very unlikely that the Postal Police themselves would have made that careful an examination of Romanelli's room prior to Romanelli disrupting the scene, I'd say that the allegations of the condition of Romanelli's room vis-a-vis the window glass is of little or no probative evidential value.

 

[Numbers]

And all this stuff about glass being on or amongst Romanelli's clothing/belongings in her room is moot in any case, since it's absolutely impossible to know with any degree of clarity what the condition of Romanelli's room was prior to around 8.30pm on the night of the murder.

Romanelli herself has been (IIRC) somewhat ambiguous and inconsistent over this matter. And since a) she went into her room only shortly after the Postal Police first arrived and searched around for things, b) she allowed herself to become convinced early on that Knox and Sollecito were involved - including the "staged break-in" theory - and c) it's objectively very unlikely that the Postal Police themselves would have made that careful an examination of Romanelli's room prior to Romanelli disrupting the scene, I'd say that the allegations of the condition of Romanelli's room vis-a-vis the window glass is of little or no probative evidential value.

I agree with this. AFAIK, the police did not do any forensic examination of the glass shards or their distribution.

However, IIRC, Ron Hendry, in his book, showed a photo of a shard that had penetrated the window frame's surface on the side facing toward the exterior of the building. This appears consistent with the closed window having been broken with great force from the outside.

Another point I recall from that book is the argument that the rock, in its flight after breaking the window, hit a clothes cabinet and was deflected to the side. Some or all of the scattering of clothes on the floor appears consistent with their being dislodged from the clothes cabinet when it was hit by the rock.

 

[TruthCalls]

And all this stuff about glass being on or amongst Romanelli's clothing/belongings in her room is moot in any case, since it's absolutely impossible to know with any degree of clarity what the condition of Romanelli's room was prior to around 8.30pm on the night of the murder.

Romanelli herself has been (IIRC) somewhat ambiguous and inconsistent over this matter. And since a) she went into her room only shortly after the Postal Police first arrived and searched around for things, b) she allowed herself to become convinced early on that Knox and Sollecito were involved - including the "staged break-in" theory - and c) it's objectively very unlikely that the Postal Police themselves would have made that careful an examination of Romanelli's room prior to Romanelli disrupting the scene, I'd say that the allegations of the condition of Romanelli's room vis-a-vis the window glass is of little or no probative evidential value.

IIRC, Filomena was rushing to get out of the house, so much so that she asked Amanda to wrap a gift for her while she got dressed to go. While she may have normally been very fastidious, in such a situation it's unlikely she tidied up before rushing out of the house.

Agreed, little to no probative evidential value, but it was priceless to the "staged break-in" narrative the prosecution conjured up. Right up there with the 'nail that wasn't bent', the 'no scuff marks' and the 'ground under the window that wasn't trampled'. When told by a great story teller such as Mignini, these 'elements of evidence' are very compelling.

 

[TomG]

The "two officers of the State Police" are Battistelli and Marzi. The "Postal Police" is a division of the Polizia di Stato (State Police).

Thanks Methos for keeping me right on the matter. If only Vixen could do the same thing.

Hoots

 

[LondonJohn]

I agree with this. AFAIK, the police did not do any forensic examination of the glass shards or their distribution.

However, IIRC, Ron Hendry, in his book, showed a photo of a shard that had penetrated the window frame's surface on the side facing toward the exterior of the building. This appears consistent with the closed window having been broken with great force from the outside.

Another point I recall from that book is the argument that the rock, in its flight after breaking the window, hit a clothes cabinet and was deflected to the side. Some or all of the scattering of clothes on the floor appears consistent with their being dislodged from the clothes cabinet when it was hit by the rock.

Ah yes, sorry - I meant that the evidence of the window glass in respect of it's (alleged) position on or within Romanelli's clothes/belongings on the floor is of little or no probative value. But yes, as you say, there are certainly other things from that scene that can have value (notwithstanding the horrendous botching of crime scene management by Stefanoni and her "crack" team of clowns).

 

[LondonJohn]

IIRC, Filomena was rushing to get out of the house, so much so that she asked Amanda to wrap a gift for her while she got dressed to go. While she may have normally been very fastidious, in such a situation it's unlikely she tidied up before rushing out of the house.

Agreed, little to no probative evidential value, but it was priceless to the "staged break-in" narrative the prosecution conjured up. Right up there with the 'nail that wasn't bent', the 'no scuff marks' and the 'ground under the window that wasn't trampled'. When told by a great story teller such as Mignini, these 'elements of evidence' are very compelling.

Yes - and especially so to a credulous court which more-or-less automatically accepted uncritically the prosecution evidence and presentation as "the truth". And to a credulous, grubby media who loved their access to Mignini and who loved being able to sell the narrative he'd constructed (out of whole cloth....).

 

[Vixen]

I'm usually mad when I find myself responding to Vixen. That is mad at myself. I know her nonsense doesn't matter and somehow she suckered me down her rabbit hole. I'm still a little curious about Amanda and Raffaele and how it all turns out. I use to worry more about Amanda as she always seemed more vulnerable, but now I worry more about Raffaele.

And here we are talking about money. Imagine how hard this would have been if the two didn't have the resources to fight this injustice? I know if this had happened to me I would have been screwed. It's unfair that the government doesn't reimburse them. The measly amount the ECHR awarded Amanda is nothing in the scheme of things.

Maybe that's where your faulty reasoning lies. You imagine, 'I wouldn't have committed such a terrible crime' and extrapolate from that that Knox is just like you as she is from Seattle and you are from nearby Iowa.

Look, read her early essays posted on MySpace. She writes in graphic detail about murdering 'chicks' and their getting it in the neck.

Koko saw her lying in wait by the bins.

She was after Mez - thought the better-looking, cleverer, taller, with handsome ski-ing boyfriend whom she herself had fancied - with a vengeance consumed with her angry belief Mez had 'stolen her job', never mind her 'boyfriend'(all in her mind), not to mention avoiding Knox like the plague over Halloween and not inviting Ms Billy-No-Mates to join her group for partying, Mez being highly popular and Knox not at all.

 

[Vixen]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to back up her claim of the '$2 million PR campaign'.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/716695d65d200ead83.png[/qimg]

David Marriott.

 

[Vixen]

I'm still waiting for Vixen to admit she was wrong about how Amanda flew home.

Oh I see. Anybody can just walk out of a court in Italy after four years in custody and presumably their passport confiscated and straight onto a plane to the USA via Heathrow, which happened to have an entire retinue of press on board.

It was all fixed in advance.