Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[ceptimus]

In what way is walking away with no deal now better than accepting the withdrawal agreement which lets us carry on more or less as if we were still a member while negotiating our future relationship? It seems to me the only risk is that we have to walk away with no deal later.

If we walk away with no deal now, we will not be subject to the backstop (unless we later choose to sign up for a backstop which seems unlikely).

If we accept the withdrawal agreement then the backstop becomes law by binding international treaty, and if the EU wish they can then keep us in it indefinitely.

 

[ceptimus]

Equivalent of UKIP....haha... of all the stupid things you say on a daily basis that is close to the top of the list. How does someone get to be so ignorant on absolutely every single topic they pontificate on? it has to be deliberate.

As usual from you, mere assertion with no supporting argument - and an insult thrown in to boot. In fact even your assertion this time was only implied - your post consisted almost entirely of insult.

In what ways do you think the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Irish nationalist parties differ, in their fundamental aims, from UKIP? They are all parties whose overriding objective is to secede from a larger political union to which their countries currently belong.

 

[Samson]

As usual from you, mere assertion with no supporting argument - and an insult thrown in to boot. In fact even your assertion this time was only implied - your post consisted almost entirely of insult.

In what ways do you think the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Irish nationalist parties differ, in their fundamental aims, from UKIP? They are all parties whose overriding objective is to secede from a larger political union to which their countries currently belong.

Florida might secede from USA, and trade with Cuba?

 

[Information Analyst]

What do you mean? You compare apples with oranges and then complain I'm moving the goalposts when I point out your error?

Complaining about "several presidents," for one thing.

 

[Information Analyst]

And, of course, we have the SNP and the Welsh and Irish nationalists - the equivalents of UKIP but for leaving the UK instead of leaving the EU.

A laughable comparison.

 

[Information Analyst]

In what ways do you think the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Irish nationalist parties differ, in their fundamental aims, from UKIP?

The conspicuous absence of the racists and xenophobes who characterise UKIP.

 

[ceptimus]

Complaining about "several presidents," for one thing.

More ignorance.

Current EU Presidents:

European Parliament president: David-Maria Sassoli
European Council president: Donald Tusk
European Commission president: Jean-Claude Junker
Presidency of the Council of the EU: currently held by Finland, so Antti Rinne

 

[ceptimus]

A laughable comparison.

I see, so you assert that UKIP is full of racists and xenophobes. When it was in its pomp, Nigel Farage made sure that anyone openly racist or xenophobic was ejected summarily.

I admit it's gone downhill since Brexit - that was after everyone assumed the party had met its objective (UK leaving the EU) so didn't vote for it any more.

I deliberately didn't compare against the Brexit party, as that is more a reaction to the determined leavers who are trying to subvert democracy.

Imagine that Scotland had voted for independence in the 2014 referendum. But three years later Scotland still hadn't left the UK, and Scots were being told that they didn't understand what they voted for and needed to have a confirmatory referendum before leaving. Or (worse) because the remainers had managed to delay leaving so long, that the referendum result was no longer relevant and could just be revoked. In those conditions, even if the SNP had collapsed and now consisted just of loonies, don't you think that a new Scexit party might have been formed with the declared aim of seeing the referendum result implemented?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If we walk away with no deal now, we will not be subject to the backstop (unless we later choose to sign up for a backstop which seems unlikely).

If we accept the withdrawal agreement then the backstop becomes law by binding international treaty, and if the EU wish they can then keep us in it indefinitely.

I had the impression that the EU were prepared to accept an independent arbitrator's decision of whether the UK had met the conditions of the backstop; essentially found the much-heralded technological solution to maintain the Good Friday Agreement. So the only way to become trapped in the backstop is to fail to come up with a viable solution. Why *exactly* is that a problem? Are Brexiteers signalling that we cannot hope to honour our existing international treaty obligation to the GFA when we quit the EU?

As an aside, do you recognise that the UK *not* honouring the GFA is liable to be a very big political deal in the US if we want a new trade deal ever to get through Congress?

 

[Information Analyst]

More ignorance.

Current EU Presidents:

European Parliament president: David-Maria Sassoli
European Council president: Donald Tusk
European Commission president: Jean-Claude Junker
Presidency of the Council of the EU: currently held by Finland, so Antti Rinne

It seems that you're the ignorant one. Unlike you, I don't have a problem with understanding that the above are four different roles.

Maybe you can start blubbering about this next:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Board_of_Trade

 

[Information Analyst]

I see, so you assert that UKIP is full of racists and xenophobes.

Certainly in a much greater ratio than any of the other parties you don't like.

[Further pointless whinging snipped]

 

[ceptimus]

It seems that you're the ignorant one. Unlike you, I don't have a problem with understanding that the above are four different roles.

Maybe you can start blubbering about this next:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Board_of_Trade

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

What part of my original statement about the EU having several presidents did you fail to understand?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

More ignorance.

Current EU Presidents:

European Parliament president: David-Maria Sassoli
European Council president: Donald Tusk
European Commission president: Jean-Claude Junker
Presidency of the Council of the EU: currently held by Finland, so Antti Rinne

Gosh. So all those people are president of the EU? You know I'm pretty sure our local bowls club has a president too, and we're still in the EU so, you know... it's presidents all the way down.

 

[ceptimus]

I had the impression that the EU were prepared to accept an independent arbitrator's decision of whether the UK had met the conditions of the backstop.

Yes, but I've not seen a satisfactory definition as to what constitutes an independent arbitrator. Would it be a single person or some sort of committee? If it's to be committee would it be an existing body or some newly formed one? How would the person, or members of the committee be chosen?

 

[Information Analyst]

Edited by zooterkin: 

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

What part of my original statement about the EU having several presidents did you fail to understand?

The very fact that you think "several presidents" is an issue, when in fact it's four completely different jobs that just happen to use the title "president," is laughable. You trying to spin people not agreeing with your hilarious faux confusing as a failure to understand is even more hilarious.

 

[ceptimus]

Gosh. So all those people are president of the EU? You know I'm pretty sure our local bowls club has a president too, and we're still in the EU so, you know... it's presidents all the way down.

Who was it who raised "all the other trade organisations LIKE THE EU"?

I pointed out that none of those other organisations had common currencies, freedom of movement, a supreme court, multiple presidents, and other EU nonsense.

In the other nonsense category you could include the parliament, council of ministers, EU bank, and so on....

That must have touched a raw nerve because I've been bombarded with insults ever since.

Once again (please read slowly and try to understand) the EU is nothing like those other trade organisations. If it had remained just the EEC, then I would have no problem with it. The referendum would never have happened, and even if it had, a majority would not have voted to leave.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yes, but I've not seen a satisfactory definition as to what constitutes an independent arbitrator. Would it be a single person or some sort of committee? If it's to be committee would it be an existing body or some newly formed one? How would the person, or members of the committee be chosen?

Sounds like a bit of a faff, to be honest. Maybe easier to just crash out and face months of chaos than use our world-class negotiating skills to agree on a referee so we can leave more painlessly.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

As usual from you, mere assertion with no supporting argument - and an insult thrown in to boot. In fact even your assertion this time was only implied - your post consisted almost entirely of insult.

In what ways do you think the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Irish nationalist parties differ, in their fundamental aims, from UKIP? They are all parties whose overriding objective is to secede from a larger political union to which their countries currently belong.

Arguments are wasted on those who cannot reason. You merely asserted something incredibly almost unbelievably stupid and ignorant. As you always do. Of course as always you will insist you are right and every other single person is wrong. because you are too ignorant to realise your ignorance.

 

[jimbob]

In what way is walking away with no deal now better than accepting the withdrawal agreement which lets us carry on more or less as if we were still a member while negotiating our future relationship? It seems to me the only risk is that we have to walk away with no deal later.

I've actually changed my mind about what a post no-confidence government should do.

To get the best chance of actually forming a government, I had previously said the proposed leader should commit to requesting an extension, then holding a referendum as soon as possible, and once the result is in, holding a general election.

Now, I think the proposed leader should revoke Article 50, then hold a referendum to see if it is still what people want. Then any pro-Brexit party can decide to decide what deal they will ask for before pressing the go button.

 

[Lothian]

Leaked by remainers in the civil service.

Do you have evidence for this?
Or is it an unjustified smeers aimed at encouraging the type of attack we saw last week when a civil servant was stabbed leaving his London office.