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The Trump Presidency 15

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ArchSas said:
I guess it's insightful, up until the point where he brings up Marxism out of nowhere. Trying to characterize Trump's policies as having anything to do with Marxism shows a staggering amount of idiocy on Frum's part, and really kills whatever point he was trying to make, for me at least (seriously, I struggle to see how anyone could read that tweet and think Frum has any credibility - he either has no idea what Marxism is, is just being a partisan hack, or maybe both, and he didn't even need to include that bit to make his point). Although I guess it should be expected from the likes of him.
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Frum probably knows the sort of bogyman to invoke to make US conservatives take notice.

So yes, there's nothing to do with Maexism in Trump, but if that gets traction amongst the party that Frum helped, it might be considered hyperbole* to get his main point across.


*utterly inaccurate but...
 
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jimbob said:
Frum probably knows the sort of bogyman to invoke to make US conservatives take notice.

So yes, there's nothing to do with Maexism in Trump, but if that gets traction amongst the party that Frum helped, it might be considered hyperbole* to get his main point across.


*utterly inaccurate but...
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Oh, absolutely, He knows what he's doing, that's why it comes out of nowhere, even though it has no relevancy to the point he was making. Best case scenario, he's just using typical conservative scare words because he's a hack; worst case scenario, maybe he actually does think "Marxism" just describes any system he thinks is bad. Either way, it's clearly a point that shouldn't be taken seriously.

But it is a great example of the increasing trend of postmodern conservatism that I noted a few days ago in the "Can the Republican Party be Saved" thread. Here's one of the major intellectual figures of the GOP, and one that's usually seen as having high credibility (AFAIK), even among the establishment, just throwing out a bunch of incorrect nonsense and acting like it supports his position about a hypothetical boogeyman (which he frames as an even bigger threat than the actual problem he's talking about, probably to minimize his criticism of a Republican). It's crazy to me that even the establishment GOP figures are being this blatant about it, too.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
America, especially younger Americans, don't understand Marxism because we're no longer living in a world where we can watch it actively failing.

I want capitalism to be overhauled.

I want social programs to at least be able to be discussed without "OMG SOZILAISM!" from the right.

I do NOT want anyone to start going "Yah know... maybe it's time to give that communism thing another try."
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Pretty much this.
Problem with Marxism is that sounds really good on paper but fails miserably when put into practice.
ANd yeah, I get tired of the whole: "COmmunsim is a great idea, it's just that the right people have not tried it",
And, aside, from it's failure as a economic system, there is the enormous body count Marxism racked up in the last century.
Of course the response to that is who "Stalin/Mao[Pol Pot were not really Communists".
 
ArchSas said:
Oh, absolutely, He knows what he's doing, that's why it comes out of nowhere, even though it has no relevancy to the point he was making. Best case scenario, he's just using typical conservative scare words because he's a hack; worst case scenario, maybe he actually does think "Marxism" just describes any system he thinks is bad. Either way, it's clearly a point that shouldn't be taken seriously.

But it is a great example of the increasing trend of postmodern conservatism that I noted a few days ago in the "Can the Republican Party be Saved" thread. Here's one of the major intellectual figures of the GOP, and one that's usually seen as having high credibility (AFAIK), even among the establishment, just throwing out a bunch of incorrect nonsense and acting like it supports his position about a hypothetical boogeyman (which he frames as an even bigger threat than the actual problem he's talking about, probably to minimize his criticism of a Republican). It's crazy to me that even the establishment GOP figures are being this blatant about it, too.
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Or Frum was just being ironic..but then a lot of people have problems with their Irony meters.
 
JoeMorgue said:
America, especially younger Americans, don't understand Marxism because we're no longer living in a world where we can watch it actively failing.

I want capitalism to be overhauled.

I want social programs to at least be able to be discussed without "OMG SOZILAISM!" from the right.

I do NOT want anyone to start going "Yah know... maybe it's time to give that communism thing another try."
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But surely they can see Marxism failing in Cuba? That terrible infant mortality rate and a life expectancy so much worse than the USA?
 
Planigale said:
But surely they can see Marxism failing in Cuba? That terrible infant mortality rate and a life expectancy so much worse than the USA?
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AH, a true believer.
Care to explain what happened in the Soviet Union, or why China has become a de facto Capitalist country?
Of what is happening in Venezuela?
And seems to infant mortality and life expencey are a long away from being the only areas to judge how a government id doing.
it just another version of the "But Mussolini made the trains run on time" argument.
 
dudalb said:
AH, a true believer.
Care to explain what happened in the Soviet Union, or why China has become a de facto Capitalist country?
Of what is happening in Venezuela?
And seems to infant mortality and life expencey are a long away from being the only areas to judge how a government id doing.
it just another version of the "But Mussolini made the trains run on time" argument.
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I guess most of the world thinks there is a balance between Marxism and capitalism. Capitalism says nothing about democracy, whereas Marxism at least pays token regard to democracy. The USSR was to Marxism what facism is to capitalism. China still claims to be Marxist though I think many would dispute that. It may have moved towards capitalism but not towards democracy. Venezuela demonstrates how the US penalises and punishes the people of any country it it can bully because they have followed a political path the US disapproves of. An example might be overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran, multiple insurrections in Latin America funded by the CIA. My guess is the people of Cuba would be far better off if not for the blockade on the country by the US.

So I would prefer to live somewhere left of the US and right of Cuba - perhaps Canada or Sweden?
 
China is more of a dictatorship now. Xi has taken total control. Compared to historical China he has taken on aspects of being an emporer.

It has a stock market and private companies. If anything it is more of a fascist state than anything.

The label Marxist is just for branding purposes.
 
a_unique_person said:
China is more of a dictatorship now. Xi has taken total control. Compared to historical China he has taken on aspects of being an emporer.

It has a stock market and private companies. If anything it is more of a fascist state than anything.

The label Marxist is just for branding purposes.
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CHina is now a CINO country...Communist In Name Only.
Mao's ecomomic policies were a disaster. Tragedy is not they were abandoned...imho CHina having a stock market and private companies are a good thing.....but that political freedom did not come with the economic reforms.
 
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Trump Tweets

Go out and get Andrew McCarthy’s new book, “Ball of Collusion.” “Supervision became the investigator, and when they pushed the envelope, there was nobody there to tell them NO. It goes right to the President (Obama). Plenty of information that Obama was informed & knew exactly..

....what they were doing. There’s plenty of indication, we don’t have to speculate.”
@SteveDoocy “Holy cow, got to read this book.” @ainsleyearhardt “WOW!” @foxandfriends A very serious situation. Can never be allowed to happen again! DRAIN THE SWAMP
 
Trump Tweets

It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep.Tlaib to visit. They hate Israel & all Jewish people, & there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds. Minnesota and Michigan will have a hard time putting them back in office. They are a disgrace!

Representatives Omar and Tlaib are the face of the Democrat Party, and they HATE Israel!
 
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Trump Tweets

Good things were stated on the call with China the other day. They are eating the Tariffs with the devaluation of their currency and “pouring” money into their system. The American consumer is fine with or without the September date, but much good will come from the short.....

..deferral to December. It actually helps China more than us, but will be reciprocated. Millions of jobs are being lost in China to other non-Tariffed countries. Thousands of companies are leaving. Of course China wants to make a deal. Let them work humanely with Hong Kong first!
 
Trump Tweets

If President Xi would meet directly and personally with the protesters, there would be a happy and enlightened ending to the Hong Kong problem. I have no doubt!
 
Trump Tweets

The United States is now, by far, the Biggest, Strongest and Most Powerful Economy in the World, it is not even close! As others falter, we will only get stronger. Consumers are in the best shape ever, plenty of cash. Business Optimism is at an All Time High!
 
Trump Tweets

The Fake News Media is doing everything they can to crash the economy because they think that will be bad for me and my re-election. The problem they have is that the economy is way too strong and we will soon be winning big on Trade, and everyone knows that, including China!

Wow! The Deputy Editor of the Failing New York Times was just demoted. Should have been Fired! Totally biased and inaccurate reporting. The paper is a Fraud, Zero Credibility. Fake News takes another hit, but this time a big one!
 
Trump Tweets

Sadly, much truth to this!

HammerDownHanna
@Hammerdownhanna
Replying to @AndrewPollackFL and @PollackHunter
FBI was given a heads up on Meadow Pollack’s shooter after he made clear threats. They were also given a heads up on Larry Nasser as he was sexually assaulting gymnasts. But they were too busy trying to take down Trump
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Sadly, much truth to this!

HammerDownHanna
@Hammerdownhanna
Replying to @AndrewPollackFL and @PollackHunter
FBI was given a heads up on Meadow Pollack’s shooter after he made clear threats. They were also given a heads up on Larry Nasser as he was sexually assaulting gymnasts. But they were too busy trying to take down Trump
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Yeah, the FBI can't conduct multiple, compartmentalized investigations or anything...

Plus, it goes without saying, it's all about Donnie.
 
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