Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[jimbob]

Meanwhile this has just popped up on my facebook feed:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...uropean-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

With the comment that "project fear" looks like "project reality".

 

[Darat]

Yeah the New Zealand Lamb thing was negotiated after French agents sunk the Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior in NZ waters resulting in the death of a photographer. That gave NZ great bargaining power with the French and NZ then handed over the French agents long before their punishment was complete "coincidentally" at the same time the new deal on lamb was agreed.

But NZ still has a lot less sheep than it did before the EU (or EEC as it was then) slapped huge tariffs on them, decimating their sheep farming.

In other words we decided our own lamb market couldn't compete with NZ so we made it more expensive for their exports to the UK.

Why after Brexit won't our farmers continue to require such protection from the market?

 

[Garrison]

Yet you advocate us leaving on a no deal brexit which will slap the same huge EU tariffs on our exports which will by your own example decimate our industries.

Well as Ceptimus has made clear he is good with that, he wants us to remove all protections from our farmers and manufacturers and leave them exposed to unfettered exports.

 

[jimbob]

Ceptimus, may I ask why you are so blase about your own job prospects after Brexit?

I know some would benefit - but I really don't want to retrain from being an engineer to being a bailiff, for example.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Another baseless assertion. I understand them completely, regardless of your opinion.

Either you dont understand them or you think lying about them is ok because we won't understand how wrong you are. Which is it?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Well as Ceptimus has made clear he is good with that, he wants us to remove all protections from our farmers and manufacturers and leave them exposed to unfettered exports.

He literally just says whatever he thinks he needs to say to make Brexit not stupid. He doesnt care how ridiculous it has to be.

And somehow seems to think that Leave voters including farmers fisherman car workers Northern Irish people, people who like eating, people who like being able to afford medicine and people who generally dont want to live in a 1930s throwback agree with all his arsewaffle

 

[Information Analyst]

You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".

No, that's not how it works. You made the claims, so it's up to you to back them up when challenged.

 

[GlennB]

You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".

And what might one search for? New Zealand lamb? Rainbow warrior? The page on the Sinking of the Rainbow Warrior doesn't include the words 'lamb' or 'tariff'.

Show your sources please.

Reality behind the Rainbow Warrior outrage

is, however, an interesting read.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

And of course NZ lamb farmers support a no deal Brexit to gain unfettered access to the UK, right?
Right?
Erm....nope.

https://beeflambnz.com/news-views/update-brexit

 

[The Don]

I also posted this story elsewhere with some more quotes:

​

Which led to the following exchange:


followed by this:

I have the misfortune to have that idiot as my MP

 

[Degeneve]

Another baseless assertion. I understand them completely, regardless of your opinion.

In fact no. You have proved that you have absolutely no clue on what tariffs are and how they work in practice. Something I could explain and make understand in less than one hour to a 10 y.o. kid.

 

[catsmate]

You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".

Or you could cite actual sources for your claims. For once.

 

[jimbob]

Or you could cite actual sources for your claims. For once.

Or at least a link to the wikipedia article stating this. Hopefully it won't have [citation needed] by it.

 

[catsmate]

Or at least a link to the wikipedia article stating this. Hopefully it won't have [citation needed] by it.

Seriously, the underwear gnomes have better thought out arguments than some of the stuff said by Brexiteers.

 

[Vixen]

Secret plans to put British firms into administration after a no-deal Brexit, from Sky News:

The Government has drawn up a secret list of British employers that could be forced into administration under a no deal Brexit. Political reporter
@robpowellnews
has more.

If I understand correctly, this is being called 'Operation Kingfisher' and couched as 'support' which I suppose sounds more positive than 'place in administration'.

A watch list of businesses that could be damaged by Brexit and may need to be supported with public money has been drawn up by the government.

The exercise, known as "Operation Kingfisher", was confirmed for the first time by cabinet minister in charge of no deal preparations Michael Gove.

Speaking to journalists in Belfast, he said the scheme "will be there so any businesses that may be temporarily affected by changes of circumstances that are related to Brexit can be supported".

It is thought fewer than 1,000 businesses are on the list, which includes several from the construction and manufacturing sector that are at risk because of their supply chains.

'In Administration' is often the first step into Liquidation, either voluntary or compulsory.

The Administrator (a licensed insolvency practitioner) takes control of the running of the company, often with a view to selling the business on or allowing a management buy out. If the creditors or members of the company are amenable, it will go into 'voluntary' liquidation, the creditors paid off (usually at a rate less than they are owed) or a compulsory liquidation if it cannot pay its bills. HMRC is often the first to petition for liquidation to recoup unpaid taxes, so by this method, the government can get its hand on tax which otherwise would have been evaded or avoided.


As I see it, going into Administration is only positive if the firm succeeds in continuing to operate. Usually, it is the first step in the road to ruin.

 

[Mojo]

Another baseless assertion.

You could try Wikipedia, assuming you trust it as a "reliable source".

 

[catsmate]

In a revelation that will probably surprise no-one Dominic Cummings, BoJo's crony and Brexit enforcer is a hypocrite.

With members of his family he owns a farm that's benefit from "EU handouts" (his preferred term) to the tune of a quarter-million Euro. This is despite his frequent and strident attacks on the use of agricultural subsidies "dreamed up in the 1950s and 1960s" which "raise prices for the poor to subsidise rich farmers while damaging agriculture in Africa".

Cummings, BoJo, the UKGov and the Conservative party have all refused to make any comment.

Guardian story.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Secret plans to put British firms into administration after a no-deal Brexit, from Sky News:

That's not what it means. It means that certain firms could be forced, by economic conditions, into becoming insolvent, rather than that the government has secret plans to force them into administration itself.

Dave

 

[Mojo]

'In Administration' is often the first step into Liquidation, either voluntary or compulsory.

The Administrator (a licensed insolvency practitioner) takes control of the running of the company, often with a view to selling the business on or allowing a management buy out. If the creditors or members of the company are amenable, it will go into 'voluntary' liquidation, the creditors paid off (usually at a rate less than they are owed) or a compulsory liquidation if it cannot pay its bills. HMRC is often the first to petition for liquidation to recoup unpaid taxes, so by this method, the government can get its hand on tax which otherwise would have been evaded or avoided.


As I see it, going into Administration is only positive if the firm succeeds in continuing to operate. Usually, it is the first step in the road to ruin.

And it results in an automatic deduction of 12 points.

 

[Vixen]

That's not what it means. It means that certain firms could be forced, by economic conditions, into becoming insolvent, rather than that the government has secret plans to force them into administration itself.

Dave

If a firm is no longer an ongoing (profitable) concern it is legally obliged to wind up.

Banks aren't going to risk handing out loans except at high interest, which won't help a struggling firm.

The government is hardly going to give a loan to a firm that will struggle to pay it back when public funds are short already.

I expect the names of the companies on the 'secret list' are former nationalised industries, such as steel, railways and energy. May as well re-nationalise them if they are to receive subsidisation by the state (=the taxpayer).

BTW 'In Administration' is a category of insolvency.