2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II

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Tero said:
I generally liked Klobuchar about as much as Warren, but in the debate she was weak on ideas, repeating talking points.
Pete is doing well, Beto is impoved but soon history. The Ohio guy is good for Ohio, a midlle of the road guy but with ideas on auto industry. No national appeal.

Moderates fiercely tried strawman arguments, saying free healthcare will lead to free everything:

https://time.com/5639682/2020-democratic-debate-detroit/
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Delaney sounded like a Republican in the wrong debate.
 
Aridas said:
After a bit of consideration, it's probably worthwhile to post this link of one of the things that happened right after the debate.

Chris Matthews of MSNBC was really, really pushing to get Warren to back up a misleading Republican talking point and doing it quite rudely. And again, this is supposedly the leftist, Democrat loving MSNBC that so many on the right like to reflexively point at as if it was the Democratic equivalent of Fox News.
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Matthews didn't like Clinton and now Warren. Underlying misogyny anyone?

And he got caught years ago with an open mike joking with Tom Delay about no one liking a bossy woman.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Am I the only one watching?

Sad. ;)
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I watched, and will again tonight. Warren went way down in my view. I was disappointed by her on a few levels.

Though it not possible, I was most surprised by Williamson. Having just read some of her "angel" quotes, I wasn't sure what to expect.
 
My feelings are best summarized by Slate:

CNN’s Debate Questions Were for Losers

Question after question was framed up from the ideological perspective of a Heritage Foundation intern or otherwise crafted as a gotcha to generate a 15-second clip for Republican attack ads down the line.

On the one hand, it was a gross display of cynical political theater that wasted everyone’s time. On the other, congratulations to CNN’s Chris Cillizza on what was undoubtedly a phenomenal night of stunted politics-like content.
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theprestige said:
CNN is not your friend.
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Yes, many of us know. Its pro-corporate, pro-establishment bias has been pretty clear for a fair while, as has its profit-seeking model. Its actual treatment of things that actually are objectively on the left is frequently rather worthy of contempt, easily dispelling the right-wing myths about its biases, not that many right-wingers will stick around to notice - just seeing the way that it frequently calls out some of the egregious sins of the far right (because there are so many egregious sins that the far right commits) if they even look. With that said, though, it remains a fact that it's overwhelmingly more honest and reliable than, say, Fox News and the rest of the right-wing propaganda outfits.
 
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Aridas said:
Yes, many of us know. Its pro-corporate, pro-establishment bias has been pretty clear for a fair while, as has its profit-seeking model. Its actual treatment of things that actually are objectively on the left is frequently rather worthy of contempt, easily dispelling the right-wing myths about its biases, not that many right-wingers will stick around to notice - just seeing the way that it frequently calls out some of the egregious sins of the far right (because there are so many egregious sins that the far right commits) if they even look. With that said, though, it remains a fact that it's overwhelmingly more honest and reliable than, say, Fox News and the rest of the right-wing propaganda outfits.
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beautifully put.
 
Strikes me a lot of people in the thread are just mirror images of the Trump supporters they hate do much:Equally blinded by ideology to reality.
 
dudalb said:
Strikes me a lot of people in the thread are just mirror images of the Trump supporters they hate do much:Equally blinded by ideology to reality.
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Strikes me that vague jabs combined with nasty and entirely unsupported accusations are generally not particularly convincing.
 
dudalb said:
Strikes me a lot of people in the thread are just mirror images of the Trump supporters they hate do much:Equally blinded by ideology to reality.
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Aridas said:
Strikes me that vague jabs combined with nasty and entirely unsupported accusations are generally not particularly convincing.
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Venom said:
A lot?

I don't see it.
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More and more I am convinced there will be no peaceful solution to this.
 
WaPo has a great article on Warren's protectionism
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...rens-trade-plan-is-bad-politics-worse-policy/
On Monday, however, Warren released her new approach to trade. It’s a great plan — if you don’t like the benefits of trade and want to see it restricted as severely as possible. If you think freer trade is good for the economy and good for foreign policy, then it’s the mother of all dumpster fires.
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“Elizabeth Warren released a trade plan Monday that’s closer to Donald Trump’s agenda than Barack Obama’s,”
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This means that Warren’s trade policy would actually be more protectionist in its effects than Trump’s, something that I did not think was possible.
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Bernie is even more protectionist than Elizabeth Warren. We need a free trade candidate!
At least Delaney gets that much right.

ETA: Sanders scores 13% by USA*Engage on trade issues, no other candidate has a lower score
 
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Regnad Kcin said:
More and more I am convinced there will be no peaceful solution to this.
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Not because of disagreements within the Democratic Party, though. If there's not a peaceful solution to this, it's more likely to arise from the very rich on the far right and the support that they've created acting to pull off a coup and alter the Constitution greatly to their advantage, as some of them directly helped with in, for example, Chile.
 
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Incidentally, you can read Warren's trade plan here. My personal take is that I think that the overall focus is admirable (and that it's actually a plan, unlike Trump's chaos and whimsical bullying), but a few of the specifics are likely to be not so feasible or counterproductive in practice. Like all of Warren's plans, of course, one can fairly safely expect that if she becomes President, further discussion will be engaged in and we would end up with a somewhat more practical form.
 
dudalb said:
You just don't get that nominating somebody far to the left..by US standards...will hand relection to Donnie on a silver platter?
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It is simultaneously the single greatest strength and the single greatest weakness of the Left that they refuse to learn the lessons of the past. Part of it is that learning is essentially a conservative undertaking. It is accepting that the people of the past (who originally did the hard work of figuring stuff out) actually have some information that may be useful.
 
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