Mueller Investigation pt 6

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plague311 said:
What are you going on about? I understood Mueller just fine.
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Likewise, even in the early hours (testimony started at 12:30 am our time) as I was getting a bit tired, I had no difficulty understanding him. He was choosing his words carefully because of his agreement not to speak outside the confines of his report.

...and he put to bed a few false Trump/Republican talking points

1. Contrary to what Republicans have been saying, not finding sufficient evidence of a crime to lay a charge is NOT the same as finding no evidence of a crime, and it certainly is NOT exoneration.

2. He confirmed that the OLC memo was the only reason that Trump was not charged with obstruction of justice.

3. He confirmed that obstruction of justice and attempted obstruction of justice are the same thing, and that Trump not succeeding in obstructing justice does NOT mean that he did not commit a crime.

4. That obstructing an investigation into yourself is a crime, even if you believe you didn't commit, or in fact did not commit, the crime for which you are being investigated.

5. He confirmed that receiving an offer of help from a foreign government in an election campaign, and then not reporting it is a crime, and accepting that help is also a crime.


Most of the Republicans on that committee embarrassed themselves in front of the US public, especially those pushing the ludicrous Deep State conspiracy theories (Jordan and Gaetz), and those two idiots who went on a rant (Gohmert and Ratcliffe).
 
smartcooky said:
Likewise, even in the early hours (testimony started at 12:30 am our time) as I was getting a bit tired, I had no difficulty understanding him. He was choosing his words carefully because of his agreement not to speak outside the confines of his report.

...and he put to bed a few false Trump/Republican talking points

1. Contrary to what Republicans have been saying, not finding sufficient evidence of a crime to lay a charge is NOT the same as finding no evidence of a crime, and it certainly is NOT exoneration.

2. He confirmed that the OLC memo was the only reason that Trump was not charged with obstruction of justice.
3. He confirmed that obstruction of justice and attempted obstruction of justice are the same thing, and that Trump not succeeding in obstructing justice does NOT mean that he did not commit a crime.

4. That obstructing an investigation into yourself is a crime, even if you believe you didn't commit, or in fact did not commit, the crime for which you are being investigated.

5. He confirmed that receiving an offer of help from a foreign government in an election campaign, and then not reporting it is a crime, and accepting that help is also a crime.


Most of the Republicans on that committee embarrassed themselves in front of the US public, especially those pushing the ludicrous Deep State conspiracy theories (Jordan and Gaetz), and those two idiots who went on a rant (Gohmert and Ratcliffe).
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Did you miss Mueller walking that back at the opening of the afternoon session?
 
smartcooky said:
Likewise, even in the early hours (testimony started at 12:30 am our time) as I was getting a bit tired, I had no difficulty understanding him. He was choosing his words carefully because of his agreement not to speak outside the confines of his report.

...and he put to bed a few false Trump/Republican talking points

1. Contrary to what Republicans have been saying, not finding sufficient evidence of a crime to lay a charge is NOT the same as finding no evidence of a crime, and it certainly is NOT exoneration.
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Point of order... That is not what Mueller or the report said. Mueller said he wasn't charged with answering that question because of the don't indict the sitting POTUS rule. That is much different from saying there wasn't enough evidence.


smartcooky said:
2. He confirmed that the OLC memo was the only reason that Trump was not charged with obstruction of justice.
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Right, so not the same thing as, "not finding sufficient evidence".
3. He confirmed that obstruction of justice and attempted obstruction of justice are the same thing, and that Trump not succeeding in obstructing justice does NOT mean that he did not commit a crime.

4. That obstructing an investigation into yourself is a crime, even if you believe you didn't commit, or in fact did not commit, the crime for which you are being investigated.

5. He confirmed that receiving an offer of help from a foreign government in an election campaign, and then not reporting it is a crime, and accepting that help is also a crime.
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None of which are "not finding sufficient evidence"

Most of the Republicans on that committee embarrassed themselves in front of the US public, especially those pushing the ludicrous Deep State conspiracy theories (Jordan and Gaetz), and those two idiots who went on a rant (Gohmert and Ratcliffe).
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I agree.
 
Mike! said:
Did you miss Mueller walking that back at the opening of the afternoon session?
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Possibly. Even so, the walk back doesn't change much, in reality. The fact remains that the OLC memo was sufficient reason to not indict Trump - Trump being indicted while President was never on the table in the first place, in other words. So his later correction was more along the lines of "We didn't make an official determination either way because of the OLC memo."

Given the set of crimes laid out as they were, the combination of that and the refusal to make a ruling does make it pretty clear that Trump would fairly certainly have been prosecuted had he not been President.
 
Aridas said:
Given the set of crimes laid out as they were, the combination of that and the refusal to make a ruling does make it pretty clear that Trump would fairly certainly have been prosecuted had he not been President.
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It also makes it clear that not impeaching Trump will be considered political cowardice once he's out of office.
 
Babbylonian said:
He raped his [now ex-]wife and he raped E. Jean Carroll. I'm sure you can probably find some memes about it. Maybe they'll include something really cool and hip like All Your Base or the dancing hamsters...
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The only rapist president actually was impeached
 
applecorped said:
The only rapist president actually was impeached
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It seems kind of unlikely that with presidents going back to the 1700s only one of them ever raped anybody. I'd guess a much higher number, perhaps 20% of them. I mean, some of them owned people. That doesn't square with enlightened consent-seeking.
 
Trump Tweets

The Democrats lost so BIG today. Their Party is in shambles right now

The Democrats had nothing

“Impeachment’s over!” @TerryMoran @ABCPolitics
 
applecorped said:
Clinton impeached. Trump not impeached.


lol
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Clinton was impeached for perjury, correct?

Trump gave his written answers under oath. The known facts contradict those answers, as Mueller confirmed today.

I'm sure there's a name for lying under oath.

Whether or not Trump actually will be impeached, anybody who supports the impeachment of Clinton and who isn't a hypocrite must also support the impeachment of Trump - just on that one issue alone.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Clinton was impeached for perjury, correct?

Trump gave his written answers under oath. The known facts contradict those answers, as Mueller confirmed today.

I'm sure there's a name for lying under oath.

Whether or not Trump actually will be impeached, anybody who supports the impeachment of Clinton and who isn't a hypocrite must also support the impeachment of Trump - just on that one issue alone.
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Good point, though, they can add perjury to the charges, probably should.
 
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