The Trump Presidency 15

[Delphic Oracle]

I'd love to see the exact text of that House rule, and some confirmation that, apparently, it was passed when the Dems took over the House.

From the RollCall link in my last post:

Under House rules, lawmakers cannot “engage in personalities” against the president, meaning they are not supposed to impugn the character or intent of whoever occupies the White House.

Under Jefferson’s Manual, the text governing procedure of the chamber specifically bars references to racial or other discrimination by the president. Remarks by House members cannot refer to the president as racist or the president “having made a bigoted or racist statement.”

I continue to be amazed at what a ******** for a government we have...



...had for a long time now.

 

[angrysoba]

Another sad day for the Party of Lincoln.
I think you can see smoke rising from Honest Abe's tomb in Springfield Illinois at what Dishonest Don is doing to his party.
It's the GOP turning into something as subservient to Dear Leader as the Reichstag in the 1930"s that I find very dangerous to our democracy.
I am sorry, but I do not see a peaceful, not violent ending to this. The rot in the GOP has gone to far. They will do anything to stay in power. Time to give serious thought to the reset option in the declration of Independence.

I don't know what this means. But surely there is an option available and that is to vote the bums out.

I would like to see the gloves come off in debates and congressional meetings.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yes, and they were called Nazis.

Yes. And feckless might be a bad adjective to describe them.

 

[Aridas]

The color tells me this is supposed to be sarcasm but it is what The PDJT is saying all the time.

From me, it is sarcasm, after all. If I had said that Trump would claim it, I wouldn't have changed the color.

I suspect that President Trump is trying to say that people who are anti-American in the way that he claims aren't legitimate members of the government. The logical extension of this is that anyone who disagrees with him, or heaven forfend actually says something about him he considers mean or nasty, is unamerican and harried out of office.

In short, his totalitarian impulses are on full display.

We can argued over how prevalent racism is in America. But open, proud racism is rare in America.

But now we have this and I have no idea what to think or how to react.

These days, at least, since it became much less socially acceptable. Even so, overt systemic racism in the background has had significant and long lasting effects on quite a few communities of color.

Trump is racist, he just doesn't believe he is racist because he doesn't understand why what he said here (or during the birther bs, or the central park 5 thing, or the muslim ban, or the curiel accusation) is racist

He doesn't care to understand things because so many years of blowing smoke up his own ass has caused total saturation, and he thinks he has nothing new to learn. You must have noticed how, when he actually does learn something new, "very very few people know that", sometimes followed by "I invented that".

Quibble. I don't think that you've correctly identified the mechanics. That behavior's apparently been in play since at least college and likely well before, if it was already entrenched by that point.

Professor Kelley told me 100 times over three decades that “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.” I remember his emphasis and inflection — it went like this: “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had.” Kelley told me this after Trump had become a celebrity, but long before he was considered a political figure. Kelley often referred to Trump’s arrogance when he told the story that Trump came to Wharton thinking he already knew everything.

So, it wasn't a general poll; it was targeted at a small demographic who they thought might be 'swing' voters in later elections. (The demographic seems to be one associated with Trump and his followers.)

A demographic that Leans Trumpward by at least 15 points, as I recall. It would actually be a surprise for either of them to have a "good" rating.

ETA: Does anyone have any idea what this "list of horrible things" is? I know that to a republican, anything that doesn't involve complete fawning over Israel is somehow "anti American" but is there anything more specific?

When Israel is involved... Opposing the (pretty clearly unconstitutional) Anti-BDS bill, for example? Noting that AIPAC has paid their way into disproportionate influence - and that their focus is specifically on representing the very much right-wing government of Israel and acting to oppose any condemnation of the bad things that Israel's been doing. Omar, for example, has offered words of condemnation for human rights abuses done by a number of countries in the Middle East, including Israel. The moment she criticized Israel, though, she got screamed at for her horrible bias and anti-semitism.

The important thing is we're all talking about how outrageous this latest outrage is, and no longer paying any attention to his long friendship with alleged serial rapist Epstein or the House subpoenas of his family and business associates.

Trump wins again.

Or the subpeonas that he's illegally refusing to allow to be followed. Or the myriad of other impeachable offenses that he's committing/committed.

It must be getting harder to claim this though.

One would hope... but, well... to repeat myself -

For that matter, a whole bunch of Republicans don't believe that they're racist, at last check, with varying amounts of truth to their belief and much of the force of the right-wing propaganda machine feeding them a large range of alternative explanations for why a whole lot of them are being called racist, what racist actually means (and why it's the Democrats who are actually racists, not them), and who's being most affected by the racism that actually does exist.

As you can see already, for the first category, we've already got a number of Republican propagandists claiming that this entire case is just politics or totally excusable because it was actually something totally different. Kellyanne Conway's version was particularly egregious.

So here comes Conway, with the subtlety of a power saw, to attack the four congresswomen herself. Trump's not racist, she says. It's just that the four non-white congresswomen represent a "dark underbelly" of America.

"They represent a dark underbelly in this country of people who are not respecting our troops, are not giving them the resources and respect that they deserve."

Team Trump isn't racist, they're just "sick and tired" of "dark" Americans who by the way hate our troops and, Conway added, are "palling around with terrorists." So no, asserted Conway, Donald doesn't regret telling them to "go back" to where "they came."

Having thus Solved the problem of the White House being seen as stoking racism and bigotry, Conway apparently felt the need for a capper. Further defending Trump's demand that his non-white American critics "go back" to other countries, Conway asked the questioning reporter: "What's your ethnicity?"

For the second, when they actually believe/argue that racism equals "accepting that there are any differences in the first place" or possibly with the barely more nuanced version that includes whether people are treated at all differently. Quite seriously, one of the repeated arguments that has been presented to me about why liberals are the real racists is that in a particular study, "conservatives" used an arbitrary word with equal frequency in their speeches to different groups, while liberals used that arbitrary word with slightly different frequencies, depending on who they were addressing. Proof that it's actually the liberals who are racists!

For the third, well... insert the usual complaints about "white privilege" being used to justify x behavior and the victim complex endorsed by the GOP.

Hmm. Anyways, random other things time.

Scalise claims Republicans never 'disrespected' Obama's office.



That's a remarkably brazen lie, right there.

And, well, it's been a bit since I poked at the Republican Tax Scam, so here's another poke.

Short version, the Republicans are really, really screwing over coal miners. Especially the coal miners that got black lung disease because of the deregulation during the Bush and Trump Administrations.

The second, and equally deadly, factor killing the fund that’s supposed to save those being killed by black lung: the Republican tax bill. That bill cut the coal excise tax, the primary means of funding the black lung trust, by a staggering 55%. It was capped at 4.4% per ton. Starting in 2019, the cap is just 2%.

Put those things together and it’s clear why the money going into the trust is now just a fraction of what it was. And at the same time, the miners who worked through the reduced health and safety conditions that started under Bush, are now approaching a third decade underground.

The Centers for Disease Control report an “unprecedented increase” in the number of miners suffering from the worst form of the disease, from massive fibrosis. And in response, Donald Trump has put a mine operator with one of the worst safety records in charge of the MSHA, seen a near doubling of miner deaths, and presided over destroying the already in debt black lung trust.

More sick miners. Less money to cover them. That’s how Republicans love coal. Or at least … how they love coal mine owners.

 

[angrysoba]

More likely, she knew the reporter was Jewish and was then going to claim the four Congresswomen were anti-Semites because they don't wholeheartedly support Israel.

Maybe. I got the impression that it was a dumb attempt at saying, "see, we are all 'originally' from somewhere else and it was not racist to point this out. So, like you are originally from...where are your ancestors from...? Russia? They were chased out of Russia because of a pogrom? Okay, so it is no more racist to say go back to Somalia than it is for me to tell you to go back to Russia...."

 

[phiwum]

I don't know what this means. But surely there is an option available and that is to vote the bums out.

I would like to see the gloves come off in debates and congressional meetings.

Tricky to do without appearing as unreasonable attacks. Yeah, I know, the GOP manages somehow, but they also manage to make reasonable Democratic responses appear unAmerican. The Dems will end up the worse for making explicit attacks, even if totally well-deserved.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Mitch McConnell said Trump is not a racist. He based this on the fact that he's never seen Trump at a Klan rally.

Funny. The KKK seem to have backed him wholeheartedly even so.

 

[Mumbles]

More likely, she knew the reporter was Jewish and was then going to claim the four Congresswomen were anti-Semites because they don't wholeheartedly support Israel.

Rather, because they didn't support the Israeli government formed by Netenyahu - I can think of quite a few people who consider the current government a real threat to the long-term health of Israel. Regardless, I somewhat get the impression that Kellyanne Conway is one of those people who consider this to be a job, and who secretly despises Dolt 45. If that's true, I guess it's possible that she's saying bogoted nonsense without, herself, being an actual bigot - but there's really little to no practical difference at the moment.

 

[dudalb]

Trump has completely taken over the GOP.
The idea that he is a puppet of the party bosses, and will be dropped if he becomes a burden is just plain wrong. I am sure some of the party bosses in the GOP thought they could control him but now the Frankenstein monster has turned on them. SOrry, the idea of Trump as puppet, at least to GOP chiefs, cannot hold water.

 

[dudalb]

As far I am concerned:Screw The GOP. They are beyond redemption.

 

[dudalb]

I just do not see a peaceful end to this .

 

[dudalb]

I don't know what this means. But surely there is an option available and that is to vote the bums out.

I would like to see the gloves come off in debates and congressional meetings.

Here is what is called the reset button in the Declaration Of Indepdence:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

In other words, the right to overthrow a government by any means necessary if it becomes a dictatorship.
Voting them out would be the first choice, but some of us think the elections system in the us might be too corrupt to allow that.
If the GOP wins in 2020 they will go all the way in trying to establish what amounts to White Supremacy, and you will see what will be a second Civil War start. I hope I am wrong, but I really doubt it.

 

[Mumbles]

I can imagine a well-meaning defender of Trump saying that Trump's statement wasn't racist, it was politically motivated. It wasn't because of the ethnic backgrounds of the Squad and he would've said it to any vociferous progressives. I think that such a person could sincerely believe it.

I'd also think they'd be mighty wrong, but I wouldn't call them racist.

I'd call one who knows damned well that Trump was being racist and defends him anyway (Lindsey Graham, say) unprincipled and deceitful. I'd call one who knows that Trump tweeted what he did because of the ethnicity of the Squad and agrees with Trump a racist. I'd allow that some folk are just ignorant and cannot see the racism in Trump's tweet. They oughta know better but they don't.

I deeply suspect that the people who say this also insist that Obama "divided us" by stating that a cop "acted stupidly" when arresting Professor Gates in his own home, after being provided multiple IDs proving that Gates was actually in his own home (Hey, that was 10 years ago today!), or by expressing sympathy for Trayvon Martin's parents after Martin was chased down and shot because one George Zimmerman thought his skin color made him "the suspect" in an unspecified crime.

In other words, these people are racists who are trying to convince themselves that they aren't - and the only other conclusion is that black and Hispanic people are "the real racists". I'm not the sort of person that insists that only white people can be racist (I understand the idea that racism is prejudice plus power, but this definition is best left to academic fields studying discrimination at the societal level), but the only real evidence of bigotry I've seen from the women Dolt 45 has targeted is a poorly-phrased tweet from Rep. Omar back in 2012. I doubt that English is even her first language, so I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt on that one. The same is true of Dolt 45's insistence that he "doesn't have a racist bone in his body" - it may be reassuring to his followers who feel instant disgust and anger towards black and Hispanic people, but it's a bad, Michael-Richards-responding-to-hecklers joke to anyone who actually has dealt with racism before.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Here is what is called the reset button in the Declaration Of Indepdence:



In other words, the right to overthrow a government by any means necessary if it becomes a dictatorship.
Voting them out would be the first choice, but some of us think the elections system in the us might be too corrupt to allow that.
If the GOP wins in 2020 they will go all the way in trying to establish what amounts to White Supremacy, and you will see what will be a second Civil War start. I hope I am wrong, but I really doubt it.

The Declaration of Independence was just a hate letter to George III, it wasn't intended to be --and is not-- a document establishing how the American government would function. It was PR, not a constitution. It's not even linked to the Constitution: the Articles of Confederation happened between, so it seems pretty clear that at the time of the DoI they hadn't planned everything out from the start a la JK Rowling.

 

[Stacyhs]

Trump has completely taken over the GOP.
The idea that he is a puppet of the party bosses, and will be dropped if he becomes a burden is just plain wrong. I am sure some of the party bosses in the GOP thought they could control him but now the Frankenstein monster has turned on them. SOrry, the idea of Trump as puppet, at least to GOP chiefs, cannot hold water.

I agree. They thought they had another Dubya on their hands; they were wrong. They didn't consider that Trump, unlike Dubya, would not listen . They didn't reckon with Trump's extreme narcissism which precludes him even considering anyone understands anything better than he does.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The Declaration of Independence was just a hate letter to George III, it wasn't intended to be --and is not-- a document establishing how the American government would function. It was PR, not a constitution. It's not even linked to the Constitution: the Articles of Confederation happened between, so it seems pretty clear that at the time of the DoI they hadn't planned everything out from the start a la JK Rowling.

I don't think dudalb is unaware of the point that the Declaration -and in fact the entire Continental Congress- was extralegal.

I think that was dudalb's point.

ETA: during the civil rights era, the courts stepped in and acted as the emergency relief valve while the gears of government ground slowly to churn out the CRA, VRA, and reorient the instruments of state to actually enforce the 14th Amendment in real terms (kinda petered out right around there and has remained on the courts ever since).

Now the courts are supporting repression or just washing their hands of it.

Congress is too busy worrying about their individual nest-feathering.

The Executive is unrestrained.

So it still comes down to two options: something in the legal framework has to change or something outside the legal framework will change it for us. I'm not particularly a fan of that option because as a student of history I know it doesn't matter how well positioned anyone seems to emerge from the ensuing chaos, it's essentially just a big old roll of the dice (and we don't remotely look well positioned anyways).

 

[dudalb]

I agree. They thought they had another Dubya on their hands; they were wrong. They didn't consider that Trump, unlike Dubya, would not listen . They didn't reckon with Trump's extreme narcissism which precludes him even considering anyone understands anything better than he does.

I don't think the Powers That Be in the GOP wanted Trump to get the nomination to be honest;but once he did they though they could control him. They were wrong. Reminds me of the German Conservatives who though tthey could control Adolf Hitler and made him Chancellor.

 

[dudalb]

I don't think dudalb is unaware of the point that the Declaration -and in fact the entire Continental Congress- was extralegal.

I think that was dudalb's point.

My point is the ideas this country was found upon included armed resistence to tyranny as a last resort. I hope it does not come to that, but to think it coming to that is impossible is foolish. What scares me is that it's not just Trump but the GOP in general who seem willing to do anything to maintain power.

 

[dudalb]

Max Boot puts it beautifully.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...r-americans-than-trump/?utm_term=.46b28d84ac7

I don't like the Squad very much for pretty much the same reasons that Boot gives. But compared to Trump tweets....

 

[Fast Eddie B]

As far I am concerned:Screw The GOP. They are beyond redemption.

Agreed. And regrettable - it was not always thus.