Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[lomiller]

if a PM attempts to force a No Deal Brexit against the express voted will of the HoC, then his only option would be to ask the Queen to prorogue parliament

Parliament has made a binding vote in favor of filing article 50 commencing the process by which the UK would leave the EU. There has be no binding vote that would block this in the absence of a Brexit deal. “The will of the HoC” as currently expressed is that the UK leaves the EU on Oct 31 deal or no deal.

Now, that quote directly above may look as if the mere act of the HoC voting to rule out any No Deal exist, could not be indefinitely biding on the next PM

What it says is that Parliament specifically ordered the PM to seek an extension to avoid a no deal Brexit on Apr 12 and it certainly could do so again for Oct 31. No one has questioned this. The rebuttal is:
- The PM is not required to seek an extension unless Parliament specifically says to do so. Thus far they have not
- Even if the PM is ordered to seek an extension, one may not be granted.

In all of the above quotes, what the barrister is saying, is that the only legal route which the PM has if he tries to prevent the HoC voting to rule out a No Deal, is actually to ask the Queen to Prorogue parliament.

This isn’t what he’s saying at all. He’s saying the PM can’t Prorogue Parliament as a means to prevent a vote that would force him to seek another extension. At this point, he probably doesn’t need to since there is currently no impetus for such a vote and no good reason why the EU would grant the extension anyway.

 

[Information Analyst]

All hope is not lost. You could convene parliament at stonehenge and sacrifice a virgin. That might help.

Finally a use for Ann Widdecombe....

 

[Information Analyst]

Yeah, I was there in early August. Never again.

At least (I assume) nobody made you go sea kayaking.

 

[Vixen]

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Really? Von der Leyen is a well-known federalist.

"Though I still hope you remain, it is in our interests to have you sort things out. We have an agreement - which hasn't been signed on both sides - and we have the backstop," she said, referring to a controversial provision in the deal negotiated by Mrs May to avoid extensive border controls on the Irish border after Brexit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48940121

No doubt as is your wont you will claim superior knowledge without supplying any reasons.

 

[Vixen]

Hmm. Garage. Full of crap that should have been got rid of years ago. Mrs by the Hedge would quite like it bulldozed and something more useful put up in its place.

No, you were okay first time.

Could be a good bus destination: No. 8 to Nigel Garage.

 

[Vixen]

One of the supposed reasons for Brexit was so that we would "regain our sovereignty". Seems like the US President is telling us who our ambassador should be. Can't see that happening if we weren't desperate for a trade deal

'We' never lost our sovereignty.

 

[Vixen]

Since when was a gun needed for
- peaceful resistance
- rioting
to force down a government?

Since when did an armed public successfully prevent the establishment of a dictatorship?

There are quite a few in history.

Aux armés, citoyens!

 

[Vixen]

Finally a use for Ann Widdecombe....

She's not a virgin. She said she tried it...once.

 

[Samson]

One of the supposed reasons for Brexit was so that we would "regain our sovereignty". Seems like the US President is telling us who our ambassador should be. Can't see that happening if we weren't desperate for a trade deal

This seems the outstanding idiocy in Brexit.
Just hearing Trump offer American help with health matters illustrates a point.
Never have I seen a better case for sticking with the devil you know.

 

[dudalb]

Since when was a gun needed for
- peaceful resistance
- rioting
to force down a government?

Since when did an armed public successfully prevent the establishment of a dictatorship?

Seems to be armed force overthrew a few dictatoships...

But then I am not a pacifist.

 

[dudalb]

There are quite a few in history.

Aux armés, citoyens!

Or a few years before that, in 1775, there was "The Shot Heard Around The World" at Lexington...

 

[dudalb]

And Labor has it's own problems:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48929244

IMHO both major parties in the UK seems incredibly screwed up.

 

[The Atheist]

So Democracy is as fragile in the UK as it is in the US.
Fact is that there seems to be worldwide assault on Democracy..and I smell Putin as being behind it.

And to think, I once had the late Joey McGee telling me Putin was nothing and had no power.

Brexit, Trump, Crimea and Syria later...

Pity he's such a corrupt murdering scumbag, you can't help but admire his domination of the planet.

And Labor has it's own problems:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48929244

IMHO both major parties in the UK seems incredibly screwed up.

I think it would be fair to say there are no major parties in UK any longer, just a succession of minor ones. Looks to me as though in a general election, none of them would command a third of the vote.

 

[dudalb]

And to think, I once had the late Joey McGee telling me Putin was nothing and had no power.

Brexit, Trump, Crimea and Syria later...

Pity he's such a corrupt murdering scumbag, you can't help but admire his domination of the planet.



I think it would be fair to say there are no major parties in UK any longer, just a succession of minor ones. Looks to me as though in a general election, none of them would command a third of the vote.

If they had not made that incredibly stupid coalition with the tories a few years ago, The Liberal Democrats would be in a strong position.......

Russia is economically weak;but it has a big military and a huge secret police/espionage organization; and that is what Putin is using in his bid for power.
ANd at times your cynicism degenerates into amorality.

 

[dudalb]

I was intrigued last night by Boris's use of a hard no deal Brexit to scare the EU into giving us all we want. If the EU says they now want to go for a no deal Brexit the UK would crap itself.

I think a lot of people in the EU are thinking "we are better off without those idiots across the Channel anyway".

 

[Klimax]

Seems to be armed force overthrew a few dictatoships...

But then I am not a pacifist.

With "great" results. Assuming you are talking about anything more recent then few cases so long ago they predate first World War…

 

[The Don]

I think it would be fair to say there are no major parties in UK any longer, just a succession of minor ones. Looks to me as though in a general election, none of them would command a third of the vote.

Maybe, maybe not.

European alections and the polls following them aren't necessarily a good guide for General Election voting. Not only are the European elections often used as a protest vote but people know that the proportional nature of the vote means that a vote in England for someone other than Conservative, Labour (and maybe LibDem) may actually make a difference. In a General Election they may view it as more of a binary (or three-way) choice.

Of course Scotland already has a "major" party in the SNP - though clearly it's not able to get support outside of Scotland.

For the Conservatives, it depends on whether they can convince people who voted for the Brexit Party to return to the fold - I think they can as long as they keep talking tough on Brexit. Support for UKIP evaporated over night once the Leave result was known. I can envisage the same happening for the Brexit Party when Brexit happens, especially if it's a no-deal Brexit. In this case timing is everything. A General Election with Boris at the helm and making the right noises before 31 October or after a 31 October no-deal Brexit could see Brexit Party support collapse or evaporate. OTOH if the election is in a year's time and we're still shilly-shallying around then the Brexit Party may get close to the level of support they got in the European elections.

I agree that there are no major parties in England on the Remain side, and I don't see that changing any time soon. It will take a very long time indeed for the electorate to forgive the LibDems for their performance in the coalition and in any case, they'd always be struggling to get more than 10% of seats.

Labour are still thrashing around to find a policy. The current dog's dinner doesn't appeal to Remainers (vote Labour for a Labour Brexit) or the small minority of Labour Leave supporters (vote Labour and we'll stop Brexit if we can). It's almost as if they're trying to ensure they are unelectable.

Then again the first past the post system can throw up weird results. If support in England really is split across four or five parties but the split is just right for one of the we could have a party with 25% of the vote having a comfortable absolute majority

 

[The Don]

And Labor has it's own problems:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48929244

IMHO both major parties in the UK seems incredibly screwed up.

There are many within the Labour Party who claim that this is all a plot to try and get the party to change its policy towards Israel. There is no antisemitism as such, just members who aren't wholeheartedly pro-Israel being portrayed as such. The trouble is, those members are claiming that it's a plot by Jews within the party - which is a pretty antisemitic stance to take IMO.

Even without the antisemitism row, Labour policy is confused enough to render them unelectable:

• Vote for us and if we're successful, we'll deliver Brexit
• Vote for us and if we are unsuccessful, we will try to prevent Brexit

What an astoundingly mixed message. Given that somewhere between 65% and 75% of Labour members and supporters are not just pro second referendum, they are actively pro-Remain, it seems like a recipe to drive away your loyal supporters in an attempt to court Brexit voters (most of whom wouldn't vote Labour in a month of Sundays) and keep a small cadre of the leadership happy.

I was a Labour member for nearly 25 years and have voted Labour in every General Election since I have been able to vote. The current Labour Brexit policy hasn't made it any more likely that I will vote Labour in the next one. I suspect that there are a lot of Labour members and/or supporters like me.

 

[Wudang]

Hugo Rifkind on twitter summed up Labour policy neatly, I thought.

Big fan of Labour's new promise to oppose Brexit unless we vote for them. Win-win.

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1148705726388477952

 

[The Don]

Hugo Rifkind on twitter summed up Labour policy neatly, I thought.

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1148705726388477952

That about sums it up IMO. I made the mistake of reading some of the comments. A number of people think that Labour will get a different deal, and a softer Brexit because they will have a different set of "red lines" than those adopted by Theresa May. Personally I don't see that at all:

• Labour's refusal to recognise the "four freedoms" prevents EEA membership
• Labour's insistence on having separate trade deals and providing high levels of state aid to certain companies and industries precludes membership of a Customs Union

I suppose that if Labour recognise the European Courts then a Ukraine-style deal might be on the cards but IMO that's not a significantly softer Brexit and certainly not something that's going to attract my vote.