Facebook Civil Rights Audit

smartcooky said:
No, YOU are dodging again. Show me the evidence, show me anywhere in the history of the world where it has ever happened that a centrist government has shut down people whose views are either moderately right or moderately left of centre. Put up or shut up!
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I don't normally respond to strawman arguments but "centrist" governments don't do anything of their own accord. They respond to the screams of vocal minorities law by law to get the issue of the day away from the news.
 
psionl0 said:
YOU are the evidence. YOU are the one who cheered at the prospect of censoring pro Trump views.

It's not hard to see why. Nobody would have thought that Trump would come close to a majority vote in the election - let alone win the presidency. That was the silent majority at work. Now you only want anti-Trump propaganda posted on social media because otherwise there would not enough loony left voters to prevent his re-election.
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The silent majority of 49% against the minority of 51%?
 
NWO Sentryman said:
What has actually happened though is that a purportedly centrist government has moved hard right. See: the Tory lib dems coalition in the UK between 2010 and 2015, when go home vans were sent to immigrant communities.
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First, I don't believe the the UK government is, or was "hard right" by any stretch of the imagination. Trump and the GOP are a lot further right than any UK Government has been, at least in my lifetime (I'm 64 this year)

Second, that is not what I asked. Psion believes in this utterly flawed "slippery slope" argument; that if the extreme right is successfully muzzled, then we move the line to the left and muzzle the slightly less extreme right, and if that is successful, then the line is moved again and muzzle slight more left of extreme right etc and on and on until all our rights (no pun intended) are taken away. IMO, his worldview is fiction. This slippery slope rubbish has never happened in a civilised society, and it never will.

I am a centrist. I see extreme right and extreme left ideologies as the greatest extant danger to the civilisation's survival in the medium term. I see the censoring of extremes such as white supremacists, racism, and antifa as measures to enhance human decency.

My beef with Trump however is that

a. He is a criminal, pure and simple. He is vile scumbag, not even fit to be put in charge of a sheep dip, let alone a country.... and more importantly,

b. He is systematically dismantling the USA's ability to do science.

Did you know that his administration is actively suppressing scientific research and development in the USA, and that he is trying to bully other nations into denying climate change. This monumental prick in the White House is undoing decades of scientific research and crippling the ability of the USA to be involved in trying to save this planet from a doomed future.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/us/politics/trump-climate-science.html

Did you know that his administration has arranged for scientists in the world-leading USDA to either accept being force-posted thousand miles west of Washington to the middle of nowhere with no research facilities, or accept termination.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...c85328-9134-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html

He is screwing you and me and our descendants over for the sake of personal enrichment. He is removing those who inconveniently tell him things he doesn't want to hear, and he doesn't want you hearing them either.

Now you and Psion and the rest of your right wing buddies can crybaby all you like about lost rights and freedom of speech, but those rights won't mean jack-**** if there is no future for us.

That future is looking more and more bleak every day, it might already be too late for us; but if Trump wins another term, another four years of promoting and increasing the use of fossil fuels; another four years of rolling back environmental protections; another four years of all out attack on climate science and science in general, then we are stuffed.
 
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smartcooky said:
First, I don't believe the the UK government is, or was "hard right" by any stretch of the imagination. Trump and the GOP are a lot further right than any UK Government has been, at least in my lifetime (I'm 64 this year)

Second, that is not what I asked. Psion believes in this utterly flawed "slippery slope" argument; that if the extreme right is successfully muzzled, then we move the line to the left and muzzle the slightly less extreme right, and if that is successful, then the line is moved again and muzzle slight more left of extreme right etc and on and on until all our rights (no pun intended) are taken away. IMO, his worldview is fiction. This slippery slope rubbish has never happened in a civilised society, and it never will.

I am a centrist. I see extreme right and extreme left ideologies as the greatest extant danger to the civilisation's survival in the medium term. I see the censoring of extremes such as white supremacists, racism, and antifa as measures to enhance human decency.

My beef with Trump however is that

a. He is a criminal, pure and simple. He is vile scumbag, not even fit to be put in charge of a sheep dip, let alone a country.... and more importantly,

b. He is systematically dismantling the USA's ability to do science.

Did you know that his administration is actively suppressing scientific research and development in the USA, and that he is trying to bully other nations into denying climate change. This monumental prick in the White House is undoing decades of scientific research and crippling the ability of the USA to be involved in trying to save this planet from a doomed future.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/us/politics/trump-climate-science.html

Did you know that his administration has arranged for scientists in the world-leading USDA to either accept being force-posted thousand miles west of Washington to the middle of nowhere with no research facilities, or accept termination.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...c85328-9134-11e9-aadb-74e6b2b46f6a_story.html

He is screwing you and me and our descendants over for the sake of personal enrichment. He is removing those who inconveniently tell him things he doesn't want to hear, and he doesn't want you hearing them either.

Now you and Psion and the rest of your right wing buddies can crybaby all you like about lost rights and freedom of speech, but those rights won't mean jack-**** if there is no future for us.

That future is looking more and more bleak every day, it might already be too late for us; but if Trump wins another term, another four years of promoting and increasing the use of fossil fuels; another four years of rolling back environmental protections; another four years of all out attack on climate science and science in general, then we are stuffed.
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Except it is not just trump. He did not emerge ex nihilo upomnsome vibrant Europe esque social democracy. And it's not just the dysfunction in America that made him possible, it's happening across the entire world, with modi in India and bolsonaro in Brazil, both of whom are doing as much damage to the environment as trump. And frankly the liberal insistence that big tech would see progressive causes as profitable forever was short sighted and naive, and now look where it has brought us. Meanwhile Europe has strict hate speech censorship regiments and that has not stopped boris Johnson, nigel farage, matteo salvini, marine le pen or viktor orban from becoming prominent politicians.
 
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Democracy and borders were once crazy leftist ideas.

Cue more heads exploding at this:

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/publicinterest.html

"Serving the public conversation includes providing the ability for anyone to talk about what matters to them; this can be especially important when engaging with government officials and political figures. By nature of their positions these leaders have outsized influence and sometimes say things that could be considered controversial or invite debate and discussion. A critical function of our service is providing a place where people can openly and publicly respond to their leaders and hold them accountable.
With this in mind, there are certain cases where it may be in the public’s interest to have access to certain Tweets, even if they would otherwise be in violation of our rules. On the rare occasions when this happens, we'll place a notice – a screen you have to click or tap through before you see the Tweet – to provide additional context and clarity. We’ll also take steps to make sure the Tweet is not algorithmically elevated on our service, to strike the right balance between enabling free expression, fostering accountability, and reducing the potential harm caused by these Tweets. "

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:)
 
uke2se said:
You're right.

It's even worse. It's the "silent majority" of 46.1% vs the minority of 48.2%.
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What I said was that Trump came close to a majority and won the presidency. The failings of the US electoral system are partly to blame for this but the fact remains that nobody expected Trump to poll as well as he did. It is clear evidence that the vocal minorities are not speaking for the ordinary voters in the US.
 
psionl0 said:
What I said was that Trump came close to a majority and won the presidency. The failings of the US electoral system are partly to blame for this but the fact remains that nobody expected Trump to poll as well as he did. It is clear evidence that the vocal minorities are not speaking for the ordinary voters in the US.
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Where's the silent majority tho? 48.2 % + 46.1 % = 94.3 %. That leaves 5.7 %. Which of these is the silent majority?

Also, I'd say 2.1 % away from a plurality and 4 % away from a majority isn't "close to a majority". Especially considering his opponent was closer.

Also, the pollsters had the percentages pretty well within the margin of error. What wasn't reflected in the polls was the archaic and undemocratic electoral college.
 
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uke2se said:
Where's the silent majority tho?
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Nearly 40% didn't vote. That leaves the vocal minorities well and truly out in the cold.

What we are seeing more recently is an emergence of vocal right wing minority groups. They are still viewed mostly as criminals and they don't counterbalance the loony left but they are having their own impact on "centrist" governments.
 
psionl0 said:
Nearly 40% didn't vote. That leaves the vocal minorities well and truly out in the cold.

What we are seeing more recently is an emergence of vocal right wing minority groups. They are still viewed mostly as criminals and they don't counterbalance the loony left but they are having their own impact on "centrist" governments.
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You said that the vocal minorities don't speak for the ordinary voters. First, the "ordinary voters" can't be barely 40 %, plus they didn't vote, so they aren't voters.

I think it's extremely mistaken to assume that these 40 % (a silent minority?) would vote conservative. Many of them are people who were affected by GOP voter supression efforts because they most likely would have voted Democrat.

The vocal right wing groups - i.e, the fascists and populists - have been around for a while. Yes, they are having an effect. This was supposed to be their year, but they kept underperforming, so we are seeing the effect of a push back towards the left. The pendulum swings.
 
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uke2se said:
You're right.

It's even worse. It's the "silent majority" of 46.1% vs the minority of 48.2%.
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Yep.... a total of 128,848,342 Presidential votes cast were either for Clinton or Trump

65,853,514 of them (51.1%) were for Clinton
62,984,828 of them (48.9%) were for Trump

Psion's "silent minority" were Trump supporters... oh dear, that rather puts a monkey-wrench in the works!
 
smartcooky said:
Yep.... a total of 128,848,342 Presidential votes cast were either for Clinton or Trump

65,853,514 of them (51.1%) were for Clinton
62,984,828 of them (48.9%) were for Trump

Psion's "silent minority" were Trump supporters... oh dear, that rather puts a monkey-wrench in the works!
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That then gets into the snarl of how the Electoral College system was never designed for this sort of scenario.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
That then gets into the snarl of how the Electoral College system was never designed for this sort of scenario.
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The EC is not relevant to the debate about % minorities and % majorities though.

Also, it is a very undemocratic way for determining the outcome of an election, particularly when the parties have gerrymandered electoral boundaries and engaged in rampant fraud to restrict and deter potential opposition voters from casting votes.
 
theprestige said:
I think Communism provides a much better historical model for this kind of thing. First they get rid of the fascists. Then they get rid of anyone fascist-adjacent. Then they get rid of anyone insufficiently loyal to the cause. Then they start to work on each other. Trotsky wasn't assassinated because he was essentially as bad as the fascists. He was assassinated because he promoted a competing vision of Marxism. Chinese villagers weren't persecuted and killed during the Great Leap Forward because of their fascist tendencies, but simply because they were getting in the way of the progress of the State.

That's the endgame you're talking about.
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this
 
smartcooky said:
FTFY



Only in the fantasy world you live in. Over here in the real world, the silent majority approve of the rules, and if the minority (e.g. Nazis, antifa, white supremacists) don't like it, they can shove off.

You can't honestly believe that its only a vocal minority who find white supremacist views unacceptable, or the behavior of antifa unacceptable.

If you know history at all, you will know that only extreme left and extreme right wing governments muzzle all views that do not closely match their own. If you disagree with this, then show your evidence... show me anywhere in the history of the world where it has ever happened that a centrist government has shut down people whose views are either moderately right or moderately left of centre.
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:bs:
 
uke2se said:
You said that the vocal minorities don't speak for the ordinary voters. First, the "ordinary voters" can't be barely 40 %, plus they didn't vote, so they aren't voters.
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That is so meaningless that it is stupid. No matter how you try to mangle the numbers, the fact remains that more people voted for Trump than any other Republican candidate and nearly half the people voted for Trump at the election.

Trump won. And despite the screams of the vocal minorities in this forum, he could well do it again.
 
psionl0 said:
That is so meaningless that it is stupid. No matter how you try to mangle the numbers, the fact remains that more people voted for Trump than any other Republican candidate and nearly half the people voted for Trump at the election.

Trump won. And despite the screams of the vocal minorities in this forum, he could well do it again.
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ZOOM!! - There go the goalposts


FYI: It would not have been difficult.....there WERE no other Republican candidates, Trump won the nomination.
 
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psionl0 said:
That is so meaningless that it is stupid. No matter how you try to mangle the numbers, the fact remains that more people voted for Trump than any other Republican candidate and nearly half the people voted for Trump at the election.

Trump won. And despite the screams of the vocal minorities in this forum, he could well do it again.
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What has that got to do with the price of tea in China?

We're talking about your claims about the "silent majority". I've asked you to identify where this "silent majority" resides, considering the fact that more people (quite a lot more in fact) voted for Trump's opponent, and that there is no indication - quite the opposite in fact - that the people who didn't vote would have voted conservative.

Face it, you conservatives are already outnumbered in the US, and the situation is going to get worse for you over time. That is the reason why the GOP are doing all these voter suppression shenanigans.
 
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