It is sad that every argument against diversity sounds exactly like "It's not gonna work because I'm gonna make sure it doesn't work."
Last edited:
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
Moderated Trump announces new concentration camps
- Thread starter Travis
- Start date
It is sad that every argument against diversity sounds exactly like "It's not gonna work because I'm gonna make sure it doesn't work."
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 32,676
By definition, they can't be called detention centers.
I Am The Scum
Philosopher
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Messages
- 5,934
Anyone of us is capable of making the exact same arguments using the phrase "happy time summer camps full of games and prizes." We just choose not to. If our phrasing bothers you, you'll have to get over it.
They're concentration camps. You can either argue about the term or do something about it.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Do something about what? Am I trying to prevent the mass murder of Jews and other undesirables in death camps? Or am I trying to improve the living conditions of asylum seekers awaiting trial in detention centers?
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
Asylum seekers aren't awaiting trial. Trials are for people who commit criminal acts. Asylum seekers have not committed any crime whatsoever.
Cabbage
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,598
I'll take oversimplification for $2,000, Alex. LOL! It's like 1946-1989 doesn't even exist with this guy.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Civil trials do not deal with criminal matters.
In the US, removal proceedings for immigrants are administered by federal judges under the executive branch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Office_for_Immigration_Review
I'm comfortable calling such proceedings trials, but I'm not committed to the term. If you want to call them "judicial review" or some such, I won't complain.
Cabbage
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,598
As far as I can tell: Neither! You're merely bitching and whining about the language being used.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Why is it so important to you to call them concentration camps?
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Messages
- 32,676
because calling a spade a spade helps you pick the right gardening tool.
It's not. It's vitally important to "you" that that is what we talk about, instead of ya know, whether or not keeping kids is cages is a bad thing or not.
You're the language obsessed one in this discussion. Don't mistake people not playing your game with being equally obsessed about the language.
Call them death camps, call them tuitty fruitty fresh and fruity breakfast booths, I don't care. But I'm not going to acquiesce because you wouldn't then discuss the topic, you would just find another hijack.
Pretending "Oh I promise I'll absolutely discuss the topic... as soon as well all agree on the language to use and then I super-pinky swear we'll talk about the topic" is a tactic I got my full immunization cycle of with Jabba. I don't need a booster just yet.
Last edited:
Cabbage
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2002
- Messages
- 2,598
I never said it was. I was merely commenting on how it's so important to you that we don't call them concentration camps.
Projection?
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 54,796
It must be the politically correct language. Like Torture is bad and illegal that is why our torturers are Enhanced Interrogation Experts. Still torture and still illegal as hell but makes it easier to ignore the crimes and pretend they never happened and were never illegal because that would look bad to those issuing the criminal orders.
The UCMJ is a total crock with regards of how to treat non americans. Pure propaganda with no teeth.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Some fair points, unfairly made. But okay. I'll meet you halfway. Let's talk about the topic. You and me.
Tell me more about these cages. How big are they? How many kids per cage? Are we talking steel bars, or cyclone fencing? Are they boxes baking in the desert sun, or fenced-in areas of a larger covered space like a warehouse or auditorium or something?
Let's talk about what's actually going on, what parts make sense, and what parts can be improved. Let's not quibble about terminology. And please - no question-begging. No appeals to emotion. I'll stipulate to "concentration camps" and "children in cages", since that's apparently your condition for discussing the topic. So now let's discuss the topic.
Tell me more about these cages.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It's important to me because I think "concentration camps" is a term with specific connotations that generally don't apply to other kinds of detention centers. Its use here seem to be essentially an appeal to emotion. It's not intended to foster debate, but to preemptively force a concession. But my offer to Joe is open to you as well.
Maybe, but I doubt it. Feel free to forward my body of work to the Yale group for a second opinion.
No. This is another hijack. Another hairsplit. Another "Let's have a civil discussion about the exact 'bad' thing that is happening before I'll admit it is bad."
I'm not gonna sit here and debate on the exact level of cage it's okay to keep a kid in with you.
And if I sat here and went back and forth with you until we had mathematically agreed that "Children must not be kept in cages bigger then X with bar dimensions of Y for periods of not less than Z, excepting in cases of temperatures above Q in which case stipulation W can be invoked..." we would get nowhere because you still wouldn't admit keeping them in the cages was wrong, you'd just hairsplit again into another subtopic.
You're Jabba-ing. Bad. Real bad. As bad as Jabba did. You're proving immortality with Bayesian Statistics as much as you're debating refugee procedures right now.
Last edited:
Venom
Philosopher
Pretty sure AOC knew what connotations she was trying to flavor the issue with.
I don't like it. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't have used concentration camp over detention center. Like others have said, we can talk about how bad it is without the extra zest.
I don't like it. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I wouldn't have used concentration camp over detention center. Like others have said, we can talk about how bad it is without the extra zest.
That works both ways.
We can talk about it with the extra zest as well.
So what the Democrat's current favorite little anointed princess spoke hyperbolicly? Oh Lordy me somebody fetch my fainting couch.
Yeah, that's puts the "Kids in Cages" issue on the back burner. A politician was.... *gasp* overly dramatic!
Venom
Philosopher
We can always accept that it was probably said for dramatic effect and move on, but people want to bring the conversation back to this point and don't want to acknowledge what she was not so subtly doing. Perhaps too much time is devoted to this, but it cuts both ways.