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London lesbians beaten for not kissing

Daily Mail now reports that she has a broken nose and her girlfriend has a broken jaw. Not sure if that's all confirmed or what.

If this bus has cameras upstairs and down then the whole thing would be recorded I guess. She says it started upstairs and the fighting continued down to the lower level of the bus.

The onboard cameras should show everything. But there is a possibility that the physical assault was initiated by one of the women. The guys would deserve it, but I don't know how the law reads in relation to who throws the first punch.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ple-covered-blood-gang-men-attacked-them.html
 
Crossbow said:
Sorry, but I had a lot of trouble following the last half of your post.



Sorry, but I am having a lot of trouble following this part of your post as well.
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No problem ill simplify it.

A big man yells at you from across the street. What is going to happen if you tell him " come over here and say that" ? He is going to meet the challange, and come away feeling like he was right.

Challanges work when they make sense to the situation, and they are something the person likely could not do. Otherwise they just cement in the person's view they were right.
 
The police, who have access to the bus recordings, arrested the four men and neither of the women; tentatively, I'm going to accept that as an answer to the question of whether the women initiated the physical assault.
 
Checkmite said:
The police, who have access to the bus recordings, arrested the four men and neither of the women; tentatively, I'm going to accept that as an answer to the question of whether the women initiated the physical assault.
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I would expect them to be arrested even if she threw the first punch. There was a stolen bag and phone, and they battered these two women.
 
Checkmite said:
But I would not expect one of the women to NOT be arrested as well if she threw the first punch.
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I would not expect her to be arrested given the situation and context.

It's also still possible that the initial attack (or any of it) was not recorded on camera. IOW, they caught the guys because cameras were around, but they aren't certain of the physical assaulting because it's not recorded or it isn't clear.
 
There is even a chance possibility that the four guys didn't take the bag and phone. Those could have been stolen by some other opportunistic passenger. She says that after it was all over she noticed the bag and phone were gone. She doesn't say she saw them take it. Cameras might show who grabbed that stuff.

The photo of them bleeding on the bus is not a selfie. They must have handed a second phone to another passenger (or the driver) to take the picture. The photo is credited to Melania.
 
William Parcher said:
It's also still possible that the initial attack (or any of it) was not recorded on camera. IOW, they caught the guys because cameras were around, but they aren't certain of the physical assaulting because it's not recorded or it isn't clear.
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The police arrested the men for both the assault and the robbery. Since neither of the women directly alleged seeing the attackers taking the items, logically that decision was most likely based on camera footage of the incident.
 
Checkmite said:
The police arrested the men for both the assault and the robbery. Since neither of the women directly alleged seeing the attackers taking the items, logically that decision was most likely based on camera footage of the incident.
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I would expect them to be arrested for assault and theft even if there was no recorded footage from the bus and only recorded street scenes of them running away from the stop.
 
William Parcher said:
I would expect them to be arrested for assault and theft even if there was no recorded footage from the bus and only recorded street scenes of them running away from the stop.
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However, there is recorded footage from the bus of the attack, thus it would be informing the police's actions.
 
Checkmite said:
However, there is recorded footage from the bus of the attack, thus it would be informing the police's actions.
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We haven't been told what any footage shows. My point is a statement of opinion. I believe that they would arrest these guys even if footage doesn't clearly show the action. The women were obviously punched and some stuff is missing. That's enough right there, IMO.

In all likelihood it happened the way she describes it, or very close to that.
 
William Parcher said:
We haven't been told what any footage shows.
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The bus company has told reporters that the CCTV footage shows the attack. Due to the nature of CCTV cameras on buses, there is a negligible chance that the footage could somehow show any part of the attack without showing the whole thing, since they are stationary cameras that show the entire passenger area of the bus and are always operating.
 
Checkmite said:
The bus company has told reporters that the CCTV footage shows the attack. Due to the nature of CCTV cameras on buses, there is a negligible chance that the footage could somehow show any part of the attack without showing the whole thing, since they are stationary cameras that show the entire passenger area of the bus and are always operating.
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I don't know what news agency has the most current and accurate information.

There is a 3 hour old report from BBC saying that there is footage of the attack. It also uses the word "suspicion" of the charges and I'm not accustomed to seeing that word particularly when conclusive evidence already exists. It states that witnesses are still being sought and that police are "following up" with the video.

My claim was that they would arrest the guys even if she punched first - whether they could see that or not. You haven't proven to me that there is any yet knowable certainty that she didn't punch first.
 
William Parcher said:
I don't know what news agency has the most current and accurate information.

There is a 3 hour old report from BBC saying that there is footage of the attack. It also uses the word "suspicion" of the charges and I'm not accustomed to seeing that word particularly when conclusive evidence already exists. It states that witnesses are still being sought and that police are "following up" with the video.

My claim was that they would arrest the guys even if she punched first - whether they could see that or not. You haven't proven to me that there is any yet knowable certainty that she didn't punch first.
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This is pretty normal in reporting. You can have a video which blatantly shows person A attaching person B and person A is still the suspect and they are still arrested on suspicion. I believe that this is in keeping with legal definitions.
 
Maybe it's just me, but the woman on the left looks like how Gwyneth Paltrow should look.
 
3point14 said:
Crossbow said:
OK then.

Thanks much for the clarification.

Perhaps if you and/or 'Cain' were badly beaten and robbed, then you would find that to be most amusing as well.
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Probably not. I'm afraid that's the classic difference between tragedy and comedy for you.
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"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."

Mel Brooks​
 
Does it ever occur to you that you're being told where to look? No?

A couple of women get beaten up, OK, pretty unpleasant, but why is it front-page news?

Oh, I see .....
 
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