Today's Mass Shooting

[The Don]

That means there are 700 times the acid attacks in the UK. With less than 1/5 the population. The UK acid attack rate is more than 3,500 times that of the US. It's because UKians love acid more than their own citizens!

We UKians don't love acid more than our own citizens because we willingly accept severe constraints on our ability to acquire acid to protect our fellow citizens.

Yes, acid attacks are a problem in the UK but to put this into some kind of context, there were 700 acid attacks in the UK, the number of fatalities is small and around 20% have required some kind of hospital attention. By comparison, there were over 10,000 homicides by gun in the US.

The UK government recognises that acid attacks are an issue and in response announced that acid sales would be significantly restricted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41484909

Imagine if politicians in the US were to try to do something similar to address a problem which is several orders of magnitude worse.

 

[Nessie]

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/x98lxDF.png[/qimg]

The rate of murders is not the same as the incidences of mass shootings.

Even if mass shootings decline one year compared to the next, that does not mean the US has done anything particular to tackle the problem.

If mass shootings decline year on year and that can be causally linked to a law or policy or social change, then you have shown the US can and has been able to tackle mass shootings.

 

[Nessie]

In 2017, UK had over 700 acid attacks. US had zero. And the US has 6 times the population as UK

It's because UKians love acid more than their fellow citizens!

There was a sudden rise in acid attacks, which was linked to scooter crime gangs in London who used it as their MO during robberies.

There were 228 acid attacks in 2012 and 601 in 2016.

Of the 2006 acid attacks in the UK between 2016 and 2018, 273 were in one London borough. 63% of attacks are accompanied by another crime such as robbery.

The speculation is that gangs have turned to acid because they cannot get guns and knife carrying is too risky.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1000969/UK-crime-2-000-acid-attacks-police-London

No one in the UK defends acid attacks or claims we should all be armed with acid, because a good guy with acid can stop a bad guy with acid. There is no right to bear acid. There is no National Acid Association defending the rights of those who want to carry acid.

The UK does not love acid like the USA loves guns.

 

[Baylor]

The rate of murders is not the same as the incidences of mass shootings.

Even if mass shootings decline one year compared to the next, that does not mean the US has done anything particular to tackle the problem.

If mass shootings decline year on year and that can be causally linked to a law or policy or social change, then you have shown the US can and has been able to tackle mass shootings.

Reification fallacy

 

[Baylor]

There was a sudden rise in acid attacks, which was linked to scooter crime gangs in London who used it as their MO during robberies.

There were 228 acid attacks in 2012 and 601 in 2016.

Of the 2006 acid attacks in the UK between 2016 and 2018, 273 were in one London borough. 63% of attacks are accompanied by another crime such as robbery.

The speculation is that gangs have turned to acid because they cannot get guns and knife carrying is too risky.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1000969/UK-crime-2-000-acid-attacks-police-London

No one in the UK defends acid attacks or claims we should all be armed with acid, because a good guy with acid can stop a bad guy with acid. There is no right to bear acid. There is no National Acid Association defending the rights of those who want to carry acid.

The UK does not love acid like the USA loves guns.

I disagree. UK is the acid attack capital of the world. In the UK, acid is held in high esteem. In the UK, the love of acid outweighs the love of citizens.

 

[Baylor]

We UKians don't love acid more than our own citizens because we willingly accept severe constraints on our ability to acquire acid to protect our fellow citizens.

Yes, acid attacks are a problem in the UK but to put this into some kind of context, there were 700 acid attacks in the UK, the number of fatalities is small and around 20% have required some kind of hospital attention. By comparison, there were over 10,000 homicides by gun in the US.

The UK government recognises that acid attacks are an issue and in response announced that acid sales would be significantly restricted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41484909

Imagine if politicians in the US were to try to do something similar to address a problem which is several orders of magnitude worse.

There are many restrictions of guns. Just because you didn't read about in the Huffington Post doesn't mean the restrictions don't exist. I'm sick of telling you people this.

 

[The Don]

I disagree. UK is the acid attack capital of the world. In the UK, acid is held in high esteem. In the UK, the love of acid outweighs the love of citizens.

Simply untrue. We don't have groups of people dedicated to ensuring access for people to acid, there are no constitutional protections for people's access to acid and the government has been able to introduce stringent restrictions on access to acid with absolutely no complaints from the public at large.

OTOH any attempt to restrict access to guns in the US is met with howls of protest from the NRA and other pressure groups.

There are many restrictions of guns. Just because you didn't read about in the Huffington Post doesn't mean the restrictions don't exist. I'm sick of telling you people this.

There may be some restrictions but they're pretty minor compared to those in most developed countries and have been fought tooth and nail by the NRA. There has been no similar complaints for the introduction of far stricter restrictions on public access to acids in the UK.

 

[Baylor]

Simply untrue. We don't have groups of people dedicated to ensuring access for people to acid, there are no constitutional protections for people's access to acid and the government has been able to introduce stringent restrictions on access to acid with absolutely no complaints from the public at large.

OTOH any attempt to restrict access to guns in the US is met with howls of protest from the NRA and other pressure groups.

Those "restrictions" have done no good because UK is the acid attack capital of the world and it's only getting worse.

There may be some restrictions but they're pretty minor compared to those in most developed countries and have been fought tooth and nail by the NRA. There has been no similar complaints for the introduction of far stricter restrictions on public access to acids in the UK.

So what? There doesn't need to be any "pressure groups" because UKians love acid and it's still legal and can easily be acquired despite UK being the acid attack capital of the world.

 

[The Don]

Those "restrictions" have done no good because UK is the acid attack capital of the world and it's only getting worse.

Your argument is that people in the UK are putting their love of acid ahead of the wellbeing of their fellow citizens. The adoption of restrictions on the acquisition of acid, the public outcry over the acid attacks and the lack of opposition to the restrictions shows that argument to be nonsense.

As regards the effectiveness or otherwise of the restrictions, they have only been recently introduced and we don't have a "control" to see what would have happened in the event that they hadn't been introduced.

So what? There doesn't need to be any "pressure groups" because UKians love acid and it's still legal and can easily be acquired despite UK being the acid attack capital of the world.

I think you need to show that people in the UK love acid, so far you have not. You have demonstrated that a handful of people have used acid as a weapon and that as a result nearly 150 people have required some kind of medical attention over the course of the year.

OTOH those in the US appear to love guns. A significant minority of people own one or more, restrictions on use and ownership are comparatively benign and 10,000 people a year are killed using them and yet any restrictions on the use and ownership of guns is fought tooth and nail.

 

[Ian Osborne]

As a UKian, I'll tell you this. The gubmin is NEVER gonna get my acid. If they want my acid, they'll have to take it from my cold, dead (and probably melting) hand.

 

[eeyore1954]

It seems to me this latest shooting went out of the headlines pretty fast.

 

[quadraginta]

You are making a functional distinction, the issue being cited was legal not functional. Kind of like how the receiver is legally the gun in the US and many components are not regulated like barrels while in other countries like the UK it is pressure containing components that are legally regulated

What this means is that one must be able to legally make and sell NFA regulated firearms to make one and they must all be serialized. Unlike say a simple AR-15 that anyone can buy a 80% lower and finish it all nice and legal with out the need for serial numbers.

You may be overthinking my comments.

I was unfamiliar with the usage ranb applied. Now I'm not.

It's really that simple.

 

[quadraginta]

It is, but it's like how ecigarette parts in Canada have a " contains nicotine " warning on them.

Must be a Canada thing. I have a couple of shelves full of boxes for coils, tanks, pen batteries and mod boxes, from an assortment of manufacturers and suppliers, and none of them have any warnings about containing nicotine.

This kind of goes to what I was trying to understand, why a local jurisdiction couldn't ban firearms, but could ban silencers.

They obviously contain no nicotine but so people don't skirt rules they are considered a product containing nicotine. (To be clear, as an example. When I buy a coil,which is cotton and steel. It contains said warning, as 1 example)

Yeah, and I've gotten them without such a warning. Although I've been making my own coils for a while now (I mostly use RTA tanks), even for things like Kanger/Evod coils, but I don't think it's changed here in the U.S.

 

[Steve]

In 2017, UK had over 700 acid attacks. US had zero. And the US has 6 times the population as UK

It's because UKians love acid more than their fellow citizens!

That means there are 700 times the acid attacks in the UK. With less than 1/5 the population. The UK acid attack rate is more than 3,500 times that of the US. It's because UKians love acid more than their own citizens!

I disagree. UK is the acid attack capital of the world. In the UK, acid is held in high esteem. In the UK, the love of acid outweighs the love of citizens.

Those "restrictions" have done no good because UK is the acid attack capital of the world and it's only getting worse.



So what? There doesn't need to be any "pressure groups" because UKians love acid and it's still legal and can easily be acquired despite UK being the acid attack capital of the world.

Why are you so anxious to divert the discussion away from the thread topic? It couldn't be shame that so many Americans are shot to death, could it?

 

[Mojo]

I disagree. UK is the acid attack capital of the world. In the UK, acid is held in high esteem. In the UK, the love of acid outweighs the love of citizens.

 

[William Parcher]

The resignation letter gives no clues on motive. It doesn't indicate any anger or disappointment, so it might not have been accurate to say that he was disgruntled. Here is what it says...

"I want to officially put in my (2) weeks' notice to vacant my position of Engineer III with the City of Virginia Beach. It has been a pleasure to serve the City, but due to personal reasons I must relieve my position."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...letter-revealed-no-hint-impending-attack.html

 

[sadhatter]

Must be a Canada thing. I have a couple of shelves full of boxes for coils, tanks, pen batteries and mod boxes, from an assortment of manufacturers and suppliers, and none of them have any warnings about containing nicotine.

This kind of goes to what I was trying to understand, why a local jurisdiction couldn't ban firearms, but could ban silencers.




Yeah, and I've gotten them without such a warning. Although I've been making my own coils for a while now (I mostly use RTA tanks), even for things like Kanger/Evod coils, but I don't think it's changed here in the U.S.

Yeah or laws here are strange. It most certainly a Canadian thing.

 

[sadhatter]

Why are you so anxious to divert the discussion away from the thread topic? It couldn't be shame that so many Americans are shot to death, could it?

Why are you so quick to ignore things in your own country?

 

[Steve]

Why are you so quick to ignore things in your own country?

What have I ignored? Of course we have shootings in Canada. There have been a number that can be labelled as mass shootings. This number pales by comparison to the US even allowing for the population difference. And I am not trying to divert the discussion to avoid mass shootings in Canada. Feel free to raise this issue.

Given that my comment you quoted was directed toward Baylor and his attempted diversion, are you perhaps suggesting that acid attacks are an issue in Canada that I am ignoring?

Your post seems to have no context relevant to the thread or to my comment.

 

[Baylor]

That love is not shared elsewhere, where fellow citizens are loved more than guns.