Notre-Dame de Paris - cathedral on fire!

[Travis]

Any conspiracy theories yet? I'm sure there are some truthers pointing out the spire toppled over instead of collapsing straight down. And of course, the Illuminati MUST be behind it.

Oh you have no idea.

Only goes to show how stupid she must be if she thinks her burning down Notre Dame will help against discrimination against Muslims!

Why would she want to do that?

You two are thinking of her as a rational politician. Whereas the right wing sees her as a crazed Jihadist that is going to strap a bomb vest on any day now. I have seen Twitter feeds where right wingers are betting on how long it will be until she tries to suicide bomb Congress. They really are that broken in how they view Muslims.

 

[Myriad]

Making it from oak is a non-starter, the trees simply don't exist. They'll need to either make it from modern materials and disguise them, or bite the bullet and do something up-front modern. At the moment I think I'd favor the latter. It'll probably take a year to even figure out what approach they want to take.

Modern materials are what's available. I'm sure the public will want an identical appearance from outside and from the public interior spaces, but it probably doesn't have to look like giant oak beams from inside the roof structure.

One potential issue with modern materials is longevity. Is anybody designing structures using those materials to last a millennium? Metal fasteners do strange things over centuries. And what do the adhesives in laminates and composite materials do? I doubt anyone knows.

Maybe they can get some advice from the Long Now Foundation... in return for letting them install some of their own artifacts up there, perhaps?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Making it from oak is a non-starter, the trees simply don't exist. They'll need to either make it from modern materials and disguise them, or bite the bullet and do something up-front modern. At the moment I think I'd favor the latter. It'll probably take a year to even figure out what approach they want to take.

Oak trees don't exist?

 

[William Parcher]

Modern materials are what's available. I'm sure the public will want an identical appearance from outside and from the public interior spaces, but it probably doesn't have to look like giant oak beams from inside the roof structure.

I guess they like the Eiffel Tower so go ahead and use the metal beams as structure.

Oak trees don't exist?

I keep reading that they previously used giant ancient oaks which are almost all gone now.

 

[KDLarsen]

I just googled a story I had heard about, in which at the time a great hall in one of the East coast universities of America had been built using oak beams, but when they had to be replaced, no one would allow them to cut the trees to replace them. They would have to use something else. One of the members of the botany department got wind of the plan, and showed up with some old documents that said that the trees in a grove near campus were planted specifically at the time the building was built, for the purpose of having replacements when they were needed in 150 years.

Sounds like the story of the Danish fleet oaks. After the British sailed off with the Danish navy in 1807, an awful lot of oak was planted so the fleet could eventually be rebuilt.

Cue the amused look on the guy in the higher echelons in the Navy, who recieved a phone-call in the mid-1990's informing him that the oaks were now mature and ready for use...

On the bright side, some of those oaks were then used to rebuild the roof of Roskilde Cathedral, when it was realised just how botched a job the first post-fire restoration had been.

 

[arthwollipot]

Notre Dame de Paris by Victor Hugo was the top downloaded e-book on Project Gutenberg yesterday, passing Pride and Prejudice, which has been in that spot just about forever.

 

[KDLarsen]

Notre Dame de Paris by Victor Hugo was the top downloaded e-book on Project Gutenberg yesterday, passing Pride and Prejudice, which has been in that spot just about forever.

Over on French Amazon, the book is now the top seller, with other editions coming in 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th. A book on the cathedral itself is currently 5th.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Oak trees don't exist?

Not enough at the size and configuration needed.
Plus if they cut the tree now it has to season.
In the past Oak forest was a lot more prevelant, a lot of it went in the 'great age of sail' to build ships frames.
Oak used to be cultivated as it became a strategic resource in the 18th and 19th centuries. (at least in Britain)

 

[Oystein]

Notre Dame de Paris by Victor Hugo was the top downloaded e-book on Project Gutenberg yesterday, passing Pride and Prejudice, which has been in that spot just about forever.

I watched the 1939 movie yesterday, with Charles Laughton and the incredibly pretty Maureen O'Hara [emoji14]

 

[angrysoba]

We may continue to debate but France has acted.

Donated money by the bucket full and labor has already begun.
The cathedral will be rebuilt and probably fairly quickly.

Just as Mexico is rebuilding all its historical sites as quickly as money allows.

Can’t we leave it to the bloody Pope to rebuild it?

 

[Belz...]

Hyperbole much?

Well, I didn't want to disappoint you.

If you don't think our history and culture and values are crucially important, well we simply disagree on the fundamentals.

But I don't think anyone here really thinks human life is paramount. Here's a hypothetical to test it:

If you knew I had magical powers and could and would do what I claim, and I said that I could save a person's life, somewhere in the world, if you only gave away 20$, I'm sure you would. If I offered to save 50 lives for a thousand dollars, you'd give it more thought. If I offered to save a thousand lives if you gave up everything you owned, your friends and your family, and lived as a beggar for the rest of your life, I guarantee that you wouldn't take the deal. Few people would. So there, you value money and friendship, family and convenience more than the lives of a thousand strangers.

But it's not something you're supposed to say in polite company.

 

[angrysoba]

Well, I didn't want to disappoint you.

If you don't think our history and culture and values are crucially important, well we simply disagree on the fundamentals.

But I don't think anyone here really thinks human life is paramount. Here's a hypothetical to test it:

If you knew I had magical powers and could and would do what I claim, and I said that I could save a person's life, somewhere in the world, if you only gave away 20$, I'm sure you would. If I offered to save 50 lives for a thousand dollars, you'd give it more thought. If I offered to save a thousand lives if you gave up everything you owned, your friends and your family, and lived as a beggar for the rest of your life, I guarantee that you wouldn't take the deal. Few people would. So there, you value money and friendship, family and convenience more than the lives of a thousand strangers.

But it's not something you're supposed to say in polite company.

There are many similar but better thought experiments than that which are said all the time in, if not polite company, philosophy seminars. An important distinction is what you should do rather than what you would do. Many people won’t even give up the 20 dolllars in real life if we are talking about people out of sight and out of mind. There was a thread on the Peter Singer pond though experiment where most people bent over backwards to say that saving people overseas is gratuitous whereas saving a child in a pond is a good idea to “stop myself feeling bad” according to one poster. Most people said they would have no problem ruining a good suit to save a child.

Anyway, it is one thing to say that people would prefer a good life without having to think too hard about human suffering - which I think is more of a rationalization than a coherent moral code - and another thing to start weighing up whether it is worth sacrificing lives for something better. Ultimately we have to as it also collapses into incoherence to, say, expend all the world’s wealth to keep someone on life support, so we can say that some things are more valuable than human lives. However, as I implied, I wouldn’t put many human lives above the value of Notre Dame except perhaps some very bad people such as Islamic terrorists.

 

[cullennz]

Don't get whole donation thing

So why aren't these buildings insured anyway? It is relatively old, but she is hardly like trying to get insurance for the pyramids or Stonehenge

Putting aside the church being loaded enough to pay for the restoration anyway

 

[angrysoba]

Don't get whole donation thing

So why aren't these buildings insured anyway? It is relatively old, but she is hardly like trying to get insurance for the pyramids or Stonehenge

Putting aside the church being loaded enough to pay for the restoration anyway

There goes my theory it was an insurance fiddle. Maybe it is too expensive for anyone to insure.

 

[wobs]

There goes my theory it was an insurance fiddle. Maybe it is too expensive for anyone to insure.

No insurance, as its state owned:

If you’re wondering which company insures the cathedral, perhaps you’ll be surprised to find out that technically it isn’t covered, with it being owned by the French state which essentially acts as the insurer. However, it’s now been revealed who provided civil liability insurance to two contracting firms involved in the rebuilding that was taking place before the beloved property went up in flames this week.

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.co...wo-notredame-de-paris-contractors-165074.aspx

 

[cullennz]

There goes my theory it was an insurance fiddle. Maybe it is too expensive for anyone to insure.

Not sure

I know it was to expensive to insure the contents of Windsor when it went up, but there are reinsurers of insurers who cover insurance for insurance companies, so I am sure there are some that would cover these building themselves.

You know. For when their god wants to watch them burn down without doing anything

 

[angrysoba]

No insurance, as its state owned:

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.co...wo-notredame-de-paris-contractors-165074.aspx

Oh yeah, when someone said to my French co-worker “sorry to hear about Notre Dame.” today, she replied, “it’s okay it wasn’t mine.” So I said, “oh yes it was.” She has to pay taxes for its upkeep after all.

But wait, why doesn’t the Catholic Churh pay for it?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Oh yeah, when someone said to my French co-worker “sorry to hear about Notre Dame.” today, she replied, “it’s okay it wasn’t mine.” So I said, “oh yes it was.” She has to pay taxes for its upkeep after all.

But wait, why doesn’t the Catholic Churh pay for it?

It belongs to the French State - the Church just gets to use it.

 

[cullennz]

I am confused

So if it is state owned then presumably they brought it off the Church?

Or did the state just sign up on all the upkeep?

And of all places that could cover insuring the thing you would think Paris would be up there

 

[GlennB]

I keep looking at the photos and trying to imagine how to safely dismantle that huge stack of damaged scaffolding. CD?