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Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

Belz... said:
Are those questions, or answers to mine?
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Yeah, I was sort of asking you what you think

OK, here is a more serious answer

Belz... said:
What does "military style" or "assault" mean in this context? In the US all that seemed to amount to how the thing looked.
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"Assault Rifle"
Definition (from Britannica.com): A military firearm that has the capacity to deliver a high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy.



"Military style" usually means that it looks something like this...

[IMGW=500]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/1973_Colt_AR15_SP1.jpg[/IMGW]
The important defining feature is the pistol grip. Its more convenient to operate than a stock grip, especially when shooting from the shoulder. A right-handed user's index finger can control the trigger and magazine release, while the thumb can control the safety or fire mode selector switch, all without needing to remove the palm from the grip. This allows even a novice shooter to execute rapid successive trigger-pulls and quick magazine changes.
 
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Stout said:
Hummmm yes Brian Tamaki. I hear Destiny is an an an indigenous-led church that’s helping Māori families turn their lives around. I'm white so I better not comment to avoid being labeled a racist.

Which leaves me feeling a little Disturbed
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Your sarcasm appears misplaced unless the response from the Kiwis to this terrorist attacks bothers you. I mean, I know you already consider a private company removing a product from their line-up tantamount to censorship of the worst kind, but what is it that makes you bothered this time?

Or are you just playing "trigger the libs" very poorly? Might want to chose another thread in that case. Seems kind of tasteless in a thread about a right wing terrorist inspired by Trump.
 
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Darat said:
Been out of fashion for sometime so not surprised they are making a comeback. When I was a kid I'd say it was the exception to not see women in headscarves.
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Oh yes, back in the days when a bikini was considered shocking and women were supposed to be pious and demure. Maybe we'll be witnessing a return to those days.
 
Stout said:
Oh yes, back in the days when a bikini was considered shocking and women were supposed to be pious and demure. Maybe we'll be witnessing a return to those days.
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Only if we let the alt-right fascists win, and that won't happen.
 
Stout said:
Hummmm yes Brian Tamaki. I hear Destiny is an an an indigenous-led church that’s helping Māori families turn their lives around. I'm white so I better not comment to avoid being labeled a racist.
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That's the official line from Tamaki & Density and it bears scrutiny until you dig a little deeper.

His much-vaunted (by Density) "Man Up" programme is a classic examples. On one hand, it's helped recidivist domestic violence offenders, but if that's because his partner is being taught not to provoke him, I'd be questioning it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110787737/womens-refuge-concern-about-dangerous-man-up-programme

That echoes the immortal advice given to Beth in a movie called Once Were Warriors: "Keep your legs open and your mouth shut, girl."

Tamaki is a fraud. He lives in a gigantic mansion and takes luxury overseas trips while his congregation lives in squalor.

If the gunman had taken out Brian his equally-hideous wife, Hannah, instead of harmless muslims, I imagine most of the country would have cheered.
 
uke2se said:
Your sarcasm appears misplaced unless the response from the Kiwis to this terrorist attacks bothers you. I mean, I know you already consider a private company removing a product from their line-up tantamount to censorship of the worst kind, but what is it that makes you bothered this time?

Or are you just playing "trigger the libs" very poorly? Might want to chose another thread in that case. Seems kind of tasteless in a thread about a right wing terrorist inspired by Trump.
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As much as I would like this thread to be about me, it's not about me and your post might just be in violation of rules 11 & 12.

The question still stands. Can it be perceived as racist if a white man questions and condemns an indigenous man's belief system ?
 
Stout said:
As much as I would like this thread to be about me, it's not about me and your post might just be in violation of rules 11 & 12.

The question still stands. Can it be perceived as racist if a white man questions and condemns an indigenous man's belief system ?
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Report me then.

As to your question, yes it can be. Depends on the context.
 
Stout said:
Hummmm yes Brian Tamaki. I hear Destiny is an an an indigenous-led church that’s helping Māori families turn their lives around. I'm white so I better not comment to avoid being labeled a racist.

Which leaves me feeling a little Disturbed
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Let me tell you a few things about Destiny Church that you probably won't find in their brochures....

1. Members must sign an oath of loyalty and obedience to Brian Tamaki

2. There is a protocol for interacting with Tamaki - you must always be respectful, you must stop talking when he speaks, you must never disagree with him in front of others and you must stand when he and his wife enter a room and you can only sit when they sit.

3. Tamaki once thought Destiny Church would rule New Zealand

4. Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for the Christchurch Earthquakes of 2010 and 2011

5. Destiny Church is patriarchal, women are considered weak.

6. Destiny Church raises members to be ready for war. Tamaki has repeatedly stated that it wants power. His blackshirts marched on Parliament in 2004 against civil unions. It claimed the government was "evil" with a "radical homosexual agenda".

Tamaki is a power-hungry, manipulative scumbag
Destiny Church is a Cult, not a church, and its a fraud
Their "blackshirts" are morons.
 
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The Atheist said:
That's the official line from Tamaki & Density and it bears scrutiny until you dig a little deeper.

His much-vaunted (by Density) "Man Up" programme is a classic examples. On one hand, it's helped recidivist domestic violence offenders, but if that's because his partner is being taught not to provoke him, I'd be questioning it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/110787737/womens-refuge-concern-about-dangerous-man-up-programme

That echoes the immortal advice given to Beth in a movie called Once Were Warriors: "Keep your legs open and your mouth shut, girl."

Tamaki is a fraud. He lives in a gigantic mansion and takes luxury overseas trips while his congregation lives in squalor.

If the gunman had taken out Brian his equally-hideous wife, Hannah, instead of harmless muslims, I imagine most of the country would have cheered.
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Thanks for the background information. This sounds like a toxic masculinity issue that the indigenous community needs to address.

I'll watch Once Were Warriors, I know I've got it around here somewhere.
 
Stout said:
As much as I would like this thread to be about me, it's not about me and your post might just be in violation of rules 11 & 12.

The question still stands. Can it be perceived as racist if a white man questions and condemns an indigenous man's belief system ?
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There is a contentious matter with Air New Zealand where an indigenous man with a face tattoo has been denied a job. This leads the liberal whites to declare Air New Zealand is violating his rights. Air New Zealand on the other hand has a dress code.
I am unsure if a hibab may be worn by female stewards, and this should be tested in light of the current mood in New Zealand.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Well that seems odd, given the previous ease of ownership.
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Why is it odd?

Pistols have always been restricted with a B-Class endorsement and the requirement of belonging to a pistol club. They are only allowed to be kept at home or at the club, and only allowed to be transported between the home and the club, or a dealer.

The law here has always stated that 'self defense' is a disqualifying reason for wanting to hold a gun licence.

Our self defense laws work on a principle of the least force required to prevent harm, as well as an equal force principle, which means that in general you should not need to apply a greater force than what is being used against you. Very, very few burglars carry firearms in NZ, and gun crimes such as muggings are very rare. Even armed robbery with a fire arm are rare, most such weapons being shotguns and imitation weapons.

The last two build on that, with no carrying pistols outside of the home, club, a dealership, or transport between the three, then there are no concealed weapons. You can transport a weapon, but it is to be keep secure, unloaded, and should be at least in a gun bag with the muzzle pointed down. You can't just wander around the place with a loaded weapon. Even hunters generally carry their guns unloaded until they reach their hunting area.

And obviously with out self defense laws, it's clear that life is more important that property. Shooting someone for stealing your things will end up with you behind bars. We have previously had cases were a farmer fired at thieves and one was hit by a ricochet, resulting in the farmer being charged with firearms offences.

There is a very different attitude to guns here than in the US. Here they are mostly a farming and hunting tool, with some use as a fun tool for target shooting as a secondary use. They aren't self defense items, and when not being used, they are locked away in gun safes.
 
smartcooky said:
Yeah, I was sort of asking you what you think
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Personally I'm not sure what they mean by the term, and I feel it's meant to evoke emotions rather than an actual standard; if the weapon looks nasty, it's an assault weapon.

Personally if we're looking at what you said, rate of fire and magasine size and so on, I'd agree, it'd be a much smarter standard.
 
NZ having a 2-minute silence today at 1:30 pm to honour the victims.

There's been hardly a word said in opposition to it. The whole country's been in agreement for a week now.

Normal business will resume next week.
 
The Atheist said:
NZ having a 2-minute silence today at 1:30 pm to honour the victims.

There's been hardly a word said in opposition to it. The whole country's been in agreement for a week now.

Normal business will resume next week.
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Yes minister.
 
angrysoba said:
Could you be a bit more specific? After all, I really want to see how the claims of these various journalists and researchers stack up. I think in the wake of these attacks there have been some examples of political opportunism, and casually daubing the blood of the victims of the Al Noor Mosque on people you don't like is a pretty grotesque form of that.

And for the record, I don't particularly like Jordan Peterson. I find him to be an intellectual charlatan who, like many intellectual charlatans such as L.Ron Hubbard and Deepak Chopra, have a devoted fanbase, and I am pretty sure that they are not all, or even most of them, joining white supremacist gangs or plotting murders. If there was any evidence that Jordan Peterson's books are ending up as the inspiration for white supremacists then that would be one thing, but for now it just seems to be an oddly post-modern form of Christian apologetics.

Oh, and can we move the New Zealand gun conversations to the New Zealand gun thread, please? It's pretty much the same old semantic debates about what constitutes "assault weapons" that some people who are fascinated by them can indulge in there, and avoid boring the rest of us...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335304
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I don't have much respect for Jordan Petersen also, find his attitude toward women to be reprehensible , and lot of his other books to be the usual selfhelp claptrap with intellectual pretenstions (though I share his mistrust of a lot of postmodernism) but calling him a gateway to racism is a bit much.
And this is the problem I have:Where do you draw the line:Who decides what is harmful racism and what is not? You could probably prove that just about any writer is somehow "a gateway to racism"?
It all come back to "Who Will Watch THe Watchers"?
 
The Atheist said:
NZ having a 2-minute silence today at 1:30 pm to honour the victims.



There's been hardly a word said in opposition to it. The whole country's been in agreement for a week now.



Normal business will resume next week.
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In some countries, normal business is largely uninterrupted in the first place. Toughen up, New Zealand!
 
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