Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

[angrysoba]

These being said all such attacks have to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.

Indeed. And yet there are people who dilute this message with their “However...”s and their “But...but... the Islams....”

Condemning fascist massacres is so easy to do and yet some people still manage to stuff it up with their qualifiers and their “understandables”.

 

[Darat]

Queensland, eh?



Looks like we found one of Fraser Anning’s 19 voters.







This is why there is nothing wrong with putting armed guards outside of mosques, even if they are thousands of miles from Christchurch. Some kind of copycat attacks were and are inevitable.



It also puts the lie to the pro-gun claim that if guns are not available the perpetrators will just easily find something else to do as much damage. A car against a gate? A hammer? A baseball bat?

In the UK same day London mosque attack: Police appeal for witnesses after man struck with hammer | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...er-witnesses-cannon-street-road-a8826331.html

 

[angrysoba]

In the UK same day London mosque attack: Police appeal for witnesses after man struck with hammer | The Independent https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...er-witnesses-cannon-street-road-a8826331.html

Yes, that was the story that I was responding to. A hammer cannot do as much damage as a gun.

 

[a_unique_person]

He is reported to be Australian. He probably will serve any sentence imposed on him then sent back to Australia. Of course if he does have NZ citizenship that would be stripped off. But would it be a race to who can do that first?



The above assumes that the person in custody is guilty. I would hate to think what would happen if the wrong man was in custody.

First he will have to serve his sentence. That isn't going to be anything less than never to be released.

 

[banquetbear]

...NZ media quietly deleting old articles like this one:

https://twitter.com/davidfarrier/status/1107387983060058112

The National Party deleting their petition against the UN Global Migration Compact.

Trying to pretend none of it ever happened.

 

[a_unique_person]

And in a total surprise to everyone, Tarrant has sacked his public defender and will defend himself.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213752

I'm sure the judge will be in no mood to allow him to spew his filth in court.

The fact of his incarceration has already come up, and there is zero chance he'll be allowed in the general population - the gangs have already intimated he's going to be a target: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213526

I am pretty sure we won't be hearing much from him ever again. No Facebook, 8chan, private phone calls, web access, private letters, in solitary.

 

[Arcade22]

Make of this what you will: https://www.nzherald.co.nz//world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12213550&ref=clavis

But once he was released from police custody, he returned to his car and drove straight to the mosque.

He then drove home where police arrested the man and charged himwith wilful damage, committing public nuisance and driving a motor vehicle while suspended.

He was asking for it.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I never understood this either. 'Right wing' or 'white supremacist' ideologies can create such monsters but Islam somehow cannot (in spite of ample contrary evidence, all along history).

I never understood this either. 'Right wing' or 'white supremacist' ideologies can create such monsters but Sport somehow cannot (in spite of ample contrary evidence, all along history).

And then there's that most monstrous of all religions - Atheism. It's sole tenet is a lack of belief in gods, yet it has been responsible for more deaths than any other ideology. Stalin was an atheist. Mao was an atheist. This proves that an ideology which is completely silent on the subject of race is far more dangerous than one which openly incites extreme action against non-whites.

The problem is of course that there is indeed a strong reason to argue that Islam is a form of proto-fascism,

Proto-fascism

Proto-fascism refers to the direct predecessor ideologies and cultural movements that influenced and formed the basis of fascism...

Precedence to modern fascism can be seen in the culture and government of older nations based heavily on law and order, such as the Roman Empire and the anciens régimes of Europe.

The problem is of course that there is indeed a strong reason to argue that Catholicism is a form of proto-fascism.

 

[sadhatter]

Yes, that was the story that I was responding to. A hammer cannot do as much damage as a gun.

Surprise goes a long way. Intent and determination are much bigger factors in doing damage than tool set.

 

[The Atheist]

...NZ media quietly deleting old articles like this one:

https://twitter.com/davidfarrier/status/1107387983060058112

The National Party deleting their petition against the UN Global Migration Compact.

Trying to pretend none of it ever happened.

Well, Winston Peters is going to have to have a scrubbing brush the size of the Tasman Sea if he wants to hide his remarks. Here are just a couple:

"They say – ah yes – but New Zealand has always been a nation of immigrants. They miss a crucial point. New Zealand has never been a nation of Islamic immigrants…

"This two-faced approach is how radical Islam works – present the acceptable face to one audience and the militant face to another."

“In New Zealand the Muslim community have been quick to show us their more moderate face, but as some media reports have shown, there is a militant underbelly here as well.

“Underneath it all the agenda is to promote fundamentalist Islam.

“Indeed these groups are like the mythical Hydra – a serpent underbelly with multiple heads capable of striking at any time and in any direction."

No irony in Winnie going to the mosque to pay his respects today.

 

[angrysoba]

Surprise goes a long way. Intent and determination are much bigger factors in doing damage than tool set.

No. Really. A guy with a hammer is not going to kill as many people as a man armed to the teeth with firearms.

 

[Stacko]

The president is promoting a fringe conspiracy theorist who thinks the CIA was behind the Christchurch attack.​

Three days this time before he starts endorsing fine people.

 

[Stout]

I'd strongly advise against that, because right now she's a step above god in the minds of Real Kiwi Blokes^TM and you'd very likely find yourself getting beaten up by a very long queue of blokes wearing black clothing.

We've already come to the conclusion that anyone taking these sorts of incidents as anything other than a joke has a problem and Australian Nazi GUY overreacted by slugging eggboy in the face.

Now you're telling me that, should i participate in one of these incidents, Real Kiwi Blokes^TM are going to behave like snowflakes and act the same way Australian Nazi Guy's thugs did.

So what is it then? Is hurling things at politicians good or bad ?

 

[smartcooky]

The problem is of course that there is indeed a strong reason to argue that Islam is a form of proto-fascism.

Islam is no more proto-facism than Judaism or Christianity.

However, EXTREME versions of all three arguably could be.

 

[metacristi]

Indeed. And yet there are people who dilute this message with their “However...”s and their “But...but... the Islams....”

Condemning fascist massacres is so easy to do and yet some people still manage to stuff it up with their qualifiers and their “understandables”.

Absolutely. Nothing can justify or make less abominable such attacks. Yet this cannot hide the fact that there is a problem, entirely distinct, with the way all important criticism of Islam is treated today (all is allegedly 'hate', 'bigotry' and so on).

Sadly we arrived at such a low point that, if we were to extend this approach to the limit, we should deem even Diderot and other radical Illuminists of the 18th century as being 'Christianophobes', 'haters' and 'bigots'...Yet no one rational doubt that they actually had a very positive role in the making of Modernity, also via making Christians more aware of the limits of their religion, with quite many of them becoming less dogmatic than otherwise.

The real way ahead is definitely not via inhibiting the internal forces in Islam which advocate non trivial change (basically the equivalent of liberal Christianity and Reform Judaism).

France is attacked not because it oppresses Muslims but because it liberates them from the hold of religion. It offers them a perspective that terrifies the devout—that of spiritual indifference, the right to believe or not to believe, as Jews and Christians are able to do. - Pascal Bruckner

 

[smartcooky]

It also puts the lie to the pro-gun claim that if guns are not available the perpetrators will just easily find something else to do as much damage. A car against a gate? A hammer? A baseball bat?

It is a lie; it always has been and it always will be.

A gun allows you to kill people at a distance, in large numbers (and a semi-automatic increases your kill-rate/time).

A knife, a hammer, a bayonet etc, is up cloase and personal... and one at a time.

 

[angrysoba]

Absolutely. Nothing can justify or make less abominable such attacks. Yet this cannot hide the fact that there is a problem with the way all important criticism of Islam is treated today (all is allegedly 'hate', 'bigotry' and so on).

Sadly we arrived at such a low point that, if we were to extend this approach to the limit, we should deem even Diderot and other radical Illuminists of the 18th century as being 'Christianophobes', 'haters' and 'bigots'...Yet no one rational doubt that they actually had a very positive role in the making of Modernity, also via making Christians more aware of the limits of their religion, with quite many of them becoming less dogmatic than otherwise.

The real way ahead is definitely not via inhibiting the internal forces in Islam which advocate non trivial change (basically the equivalent of liberal Christianity and Reform Judaism).

I have no problem condemning Islam, and the terrorism conducted in its name. But that is off-topic here. Please start another thread about that if you don’t want to be accused of whataboutery.

 

[a_unique_person]

The president is promoting a fringe conspiracy theorist who thinks the CIA was behind the Christchurch attack.​

Three days this time before he starts endorsing fine people.

Donald had better find out who runs the CIA so he can ask them if they could stop doing that.

 

[a_unique_person]

I have no problem condemning Islam, and the terrorism conducted in its name. But that is off-topic here. Please start another thread about that if you don’t want to be accused of whataboutery.

Extremism is the problem. Moderates don't have an issue with that.

 

[The Atheist]

No. Really. A guy with a hammer is not going to kill as many people as a man armed to the teeth with firearms.

True, but it seems to escape some people.

Now you're telling me that, should i participate in one of these incidents, Real Kiwi Blokes^TM are going to behave like snowflakes and act the same way Australian Nazi Guy's thugs did.

So what is it then? Is hurling things at politicians good or bad ?

Over here, as I've linked, throwing things at politicians is a national pastime, and as long as no actual bodily harm is done, nobody cares. Two specific incidents involving senior politicians have met with no charges.

The point I was making that right now, feelings are understandably very high, and Jacinda has earned universal respect across the country, and world, for that matter.

If someone threw anything other than petals at her right now, I suggest there would be a backlash that would make the egger's punishment look like a kindergarten fight.

It's quite unusual, because outside of All Blacks games, Kiwis aren't a very emotional people. This incident has brought it to the surface, and from some of the unlikeliest groups.

Black Power & Mongrel Mob are despicable crime gangs with a history of rape, murder and drug dealing over the past half century. They've all come out in solidarity with the muslim community, as has everyone else, no matter what colour or creed they might be. A vigil at Wellington yesterday drew 11,000 people, and that's a different island, let alone city.

The enormous Pasifika christian community, who normally share nothing in common with muslims, have rallied around their muslim neighbours in a way nothing has ever done before. We've had major tragedies in NZ - a good example is the Erebus crash, which killed 300 in a population half the current size. That didn't generate the outpouring of grief, anger and brotherhood this has.