Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

McHrozni said:
I'm sarcastic. When there were examples of Muslim attacks similar to this (Paris, Tolouse, Florida) the usual line was "mental patient", "has no connection to Islam", "don't blame Islam", "you don't understand what they went through" and so on. Israel features prominently. A common trope is that "he's only a terrorist because he isn't white, he wouldn't be called a terrorist if he was white".

I'm using (some might say abusing, but idk) this sad example of a non-Muslim extremist doing what has been a nearly exclusive domain of Muslims for many years to highlight the hypocrycy is reversed. There is no leniency offered because this guy is white or because he targets Muslims, if anything he (or this group, there appear to be many) recieves worse criticism than Muslim terrorists do.

There is nothing wrong in how he is treated, but neither are Muslim extremists deserving of lighter treatment because they're Muslim. That's all I'm saying.

McHrozni
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Is this poster for real or joking?
 
The Atheist said:
Well, he'll be going to Pare Max. I reckon he'll get non-parole of 50 years. Probably still beats Lundy out, though.

Something like 60% of the blokes in Pare Max are Maori. It's known that at least some Mob and Power blokes have joined islam, and most of that 60% are in one of those gangs.

I suspect his life expectancy inside might be quite short.

I hope they live stream it.
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I realise it's an emotional time, but no, just no.

Whatever punishment you think is warranted, it should not be left to the discretion and whims of criminals.
 
cullennz said:
The skinhead types in the 80's were around, but they kind of got pushed away to Dunedin, and then pretty much died out, probably due to boredom
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Mate, have you been down there lately? The racist element in Chch has been so bad Fijian rugby players have given up and moved away.

Not to mention: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6674286/White-power-movement-delivers-warning

Massey University sociologist Paul Spoonley began his research into extreme right wing groups in the early 1980s and was always puzzled as to why so many of them were based in Christchurch...

Christchurch continues to have the dubious honour of being the home to the largest number of extremist and white supremacist individuals and groups in New Zealand, a tradition that is now more than 30 years old.
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cullennz said:
It has always had a Mongrel Mob presence and other scum gangs, which can get them just as easily
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Of course they can, but I just can't see that bloke cruising up to the local Mob chapter and asking if he can buy a gun. Head Hunters, maybe.

It could be he got it through an Aussie gang as well. The Bandidos have a chapter there.
 
McHrozni said:
I'm sarcastic. When there were examples of Muslim attacks similar to this (Paris, Tolouse, Florida) the usual line was "mental patient", "has no connection to Islam", "don't blame Islam", "you don't understand what they went through" and so on. Israel features prominently. A common trope is that "he's only a terrorist because he isn't white, he wouldn't be called a terrorist if he was white".

I'm using (some might say abusing, but idk) this sad example of a non-Muslim extremist doing what has been a nearly exclusive domain of Muslims for many years to highlight the hypocrycy is reversed. There is no leniency offered because this guy is white or because he targets Muslims, if anything he (or this group, there appear to be many) recieves worse criticism than Muslim terrorists do.

There is nothing wrong in how he is treated, but neither are Muslim extremists deserving of lighter treatment because they're Muslim. That's all I'm saying.

McHrozni
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Don't talk crap and don't be part of the self-pitying whines of "but why is it only bad if my side..."

We know that when Muslim extremists and terrorists kill people it is because of their ideology, and we know that is the case here. The fact that some people will obfuscate is no reason to go on a pre-emptive whinefest.
 
The Atheist said:
Mate, have you been down there lately? The racist element in Chch has been so bad Fijian rugby players have given up and moved away.

Not to mention: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6674286/White-power-movement-delivers-warning





Of course they can, but I just can't see that bloke cruising up to the local Mob chapter and asking if he can buy a gun. Head Hunters, maybe.

It could be he got it through an Aussie gang as well. The Bandidos have a chapter there.
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Kyle Chapman is a joke of a bloke Atheist.

He makes minnie mouse look staunch, and has as much chance of getting access to illegal AR 15 as I have
 
3point14 said:
I realise it's an emotional time, but no, just no.

Whatever punishment you think is warranted, it should not be left to the discretion and whims of criminals.
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Don't be thinking I support the idea. I'm just suggesting what might well happen to him in jail. He's clearly a white supremacist, and not going to be very popular in a completely brown-dominated prison.

The live streaming is just to balance his own.

I wouldn't watch it, just as I won't watch his.

I'd be prepared to estimate his punishment at 50 years non-parole. The record at the moment is 33, for 3 dead, so I'd expect a hefty premium on that.
 
McHrozni said:
I'm pointing out at the blatant hypocrycy in treating extremists from these two opposing groups. I have yet to see a suggestion his motive is "unknown" (a common feature when a Muslim does it), or that he was mentally ill (ditto), or that he did because of "repression" (guess) or maybe that "we shouldn't judge radical nationalists by his actions", nor will anyone suggest "radical nationalism couldn't have motivated his crime, because otherwise all radical nationalists would go on killing sprees".
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Utter bollocks.
The reason we know this was terrorism is because his manifesto was available pretty much straight away.
 
cullennz said:
He makes minnie mouse look staunch,...
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Agree - he's a little pussy.

The ones who don't want their pics in the paper aren't.

Perpetrator appearing in court tomorrow to face 49 murder charges.

I see someone else has come up with the line about the worst massacre since 1943. Beat ya by hours.
 
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angrysoba said:
Don't talk crap and don't be part of the self-pitying whines of "but why is it only bad if my side..."
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Not what I'm doing.

We know that when Muslim extremists and terrorists kill people it is because of their ideology, and we know that is the case here. The fact that some people will obfuscate is no reason to go on a pre-emptive whinefest.
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I'm pointing out those people are dead wrong, always have been. I'm not whining, nor do I think this guy is recieving unfair treatment.

McHrozni
 
smartcooky said:
I think that is unfair. Many of those guns are shotguns (duck and goose shooting are popular seasonal sports here) and hunting rifles (again, hunting is a popular sports).
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That's true for all civil gun ownership, overall. In some countries more so than others of course.

Guns such as handguns and MSSAs are supposed to be difficult to get. If I were a betting man, I would guess that most of his guns were either stolen, or smuggled in or both. I doubt he would have a firearms licence as he would likely fail the "fit and proper person" test.

I guess we are now going to see a whole raft of new firearms restrictions brought in. Every firearm will have to be on a register as well as every firearms owner. And I can tell you, unlike the USA, any new restrictions will have near unanimous support from all parties in the house, and will have the overwhelming support of New Zealanders, even gun owners like me.
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It could be, we'll see.

McHrozni
 
Absolutely horrific attack on innocent people.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We're sitting on a ticking bomb. These extreme right wing terrorists are radicalizing through the internet, and due to our collective gaze being directed almost solely on Islamist extremists, the right wing terrorists will fall through the cracks. I think things will get much worse before it gets any better.

Also, who are we going to invade to stop this terror?
 
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Trump Tweets

Breitbart News Network http://bit.ly/2KyoPz9 via @BreitbartNews

Breitbart - Breitbart News Network
Syndicated news and opinion website providing continuously updated headlines to top news and analysis sources.

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Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Breitbart News Network http://bit.ly/2KyoPz9 via @BreitbartNews

Breitbart - Breitbart News Network
Syndicated news and opinion website providing continuously updated headlines to top news and analysis sources.

breitbart.com
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Even by Trump standards, that's a weird tweet. He's doing commercials now?
 
uke2se said:
Absolutely horrific attack on innocent people.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We're sitting on a ticking bomb. These extreme right wing terrorists are radicalizing through the internet, and due to our collective gaze being directed almost solely on Islamist extremists, the right wing terrorists will fall through the cracks. I think things will get much worse before it gets any better.
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I recommend we start at the source and go after the doctrine that incites them itself.

Either that or do what Shidiq Khan said, which can be summarised as: "Feces and terrorism happen".

These are the two approaches, either seek to defeat it where is originates from or ignore it and hope it goes away.

Also, who are we going to invade to stop this terror?
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Any country giving them, aid, shelter and ideological cover, I would hope.

If that turns out to be USA, we have a problem.

McHrozni
 
uke2se said:
Also, who are we going to invade to stop this terror?
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Ryokan said:
Australia?
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Seconded!

Jacinda Ardern is calling it "New Zealand's darkest day".

Somewhat silly; we've had a lot darker.

Interestingly (to me, anyway) the number of dead is considerably fewer than died on the roads in NZ last month.

I'm getting sick and tired of christians praying for Christchurch. Aside from the irrelevance of it, if it were able to do something, wouldn't the sky-daddy have done acted while they were being shot as they prayed to him?

The fallout from this will be huge, and I'd expect a Commission of Inquiry to be set up double-quick to figure how this bloke slid under all the radars.
 
McHrozni said:
I recommend we start at the source and go after the doctrine that incites them itself.
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How do you attack an idea?

Also, just to be clear, which idea is inciting them? I'd say that it's people holding ideas that are inciting them.
 
I think from the basics what we have here is one foreigner rocking over, deciding against his original plan of targeting else where and deciding Chch.

2 others who may or may not actually have hurt anyone

He has managed to get guns. The bad type, which take connections to get/smuggle and go under the radar.

So the emphasis at the moment to me is kind of less NZ "Global security" or any other hostile relations between Muslims and others crap, because frankly there isn't much if any, and more how he got the illegal weapons and how come with such a blatant ugly online presence, he was so freely able to head here and carry it out.
 
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