Anti-Muslim Terrorist Attack in... NZ?

[McHrozni]

I wonder if the media will call him an "extremist" and not a "terrorist", owing to his white background.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...zealand-christchurch-shooting-intl/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/world/asia/new-zealand-shooting-updates-christchurch.html
https://www.foxnews.com/world/multiple-fatalities-at-new-zealand-mosque-shooting-police

Apparently, no, they will not (nor should they). Some myths are outright dangerous and need to be buried.

McHrozni

 

[Checkmite]

Prime Minister Morrison has expressed condemnation for Senator Anning's bigoted statements.

 

[cullennz]

I ended up actually watching the video, to understand.

The dude was making sure he got the job done.

 

[angrysoba]

I ended up actually watching the video, to understand.

The dude was making sure he got the job done.

You mean he killed a lot of people? Yeah, we know that. Apparently the police have confirmed there were 49 people killed. I don't see why it was necessary to watch a video of the killing "to understand".

 

[cullennz]

You mean he killed a lot of people? Yeah, we know that. Apparently the police have confirmed there were 49 people killed. I don't see why it was necessary to watch a video of the killing "to understand".

After today, I can't be bothered having a conversation with you to justify my reasons

But feel free to speculate privately.

Edit: Should add I couldn't watch much of it

 

[smartcooky]

Scum. How strong are NZ anti terrorisim laws? Hopefully they successfully prosecute him and his accomplaces to the fullest extent of the law.

Our sentences are pretty pathetic. We don't have the kind of comic, almost meaningless sentences they have in USA such as 'five consecutive terms of 99 years' , or the death penalty. Most terms for murder max out at about 20 years.

However, we do have a rather innocuous sounding sentence called "preventive detention", which is a nice-sounding way of saying "lock him up and throw away the key".

Preventive detention is used for people who are considered to have zero chance of rehabilitation and/or who have been deemed by the courts to always present a danger to the community.

This sort of scum would fit that bill IMO.

 

[McHrozni]

Our sentences are pretty pathetic. We don't have the kind of comic, almost meaningless sentences they have in USA such as 'five consecutive terms of 99 years' , or the death penalty. Most terms for murder max out at about 20 years.

However, we do have a rather innocuous sounding sentence called "preventive detention", which is a nice-sounding way of saying "lock him up and throw away the key".

Preventive detention is used for people who are considered to have zero chance of rehabilitation and/or who have been deemed by the courts to always present a danger to the community.

This sort of scum would fit that bill IMO.

Probably, yeah. Here's the manifesto:

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1552636425397.jpg

I see an awful lot of similarities with the Hamas charter or al-Queda propaganda and others like that. I generally love irony, but here I really could do without.

McHrozni

 

[Ryokan]

Probably, yeah. Here's the manifesto:

http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1552636425397.jpg

I see an awful lot of similarities with the Hamas charter or al-Queda propaganda and more. I generally love irony, but here I really could do without.

McHrozni

His manifesto is much more similar to Anders Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable for you. Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.

ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even. Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?

 

[Ryokan]

My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?

Anders Breivik trawled Europe for the better part of a year to find illegal guns for his attack. He failed, and went down the long route of getting his guns legally.

That last option would not have been open to this guy. He was a foreigner with no ways to bring weapons to New Zealand. So where did he get them?

 

[McHrozni]

His manifesto is much more similar to Andres Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable to you.

That one has major similarities too, of course. But Brevik recieved the same treatment as this guy, so there is no hypocrycy there.

Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.

I'm pointing out at the blatant hypocrycy in treating extremists from these two opposing groups. I have yet to see a suggestion his motive is "unknown" (a common feature when a Muslim does it), or that he was mentally ill (ditto), or that he did because of "repression" (guess) or maybe that "we shouldn't judge radical nationalists by his actions", nor will anyone suggest "radical nationalism couldn't have motivated his crime, because otherwise all radical nationalists would go on killing sprees".

We all agree he was a radical terrorist and his ideology must be fought and defeated for all time.

Now can we apply the same standard to all ideologies that produce his ilk?

I'm asking because the manifesto suggests some other ideologies (one in particular) have made his ideology worse if not conjured it up altogether.

ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even.

I got the link off another forum, not that would stop you from a perfectly good ad hominem.

Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?

I have no idea. Probably?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?

Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.

That last option would not have been open to this guy. He was a foreigner with no ways to bring weapons to New Zealand. So where did he get them?

One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

McHrozni

 

[smartcooky]

His manifesto is much more similar to Andres Breivik's manifesto, but I guess that comparison would be too uncomfortable for you. Better to keep pointing at the Muslims.

ETA: Linking to images on 4chan doesn't work. I'm not surprised to see you frequent that website, though. /pol/, even. Are they glorifying their new hero, yet?

All they way through reading it, two names kept popping into my head..... Andres Brevik and Rep Steve King

 

[The Atheist]

I linked it in the latest what we know so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...m-christchurch-shootings-despite-police-pleas

Ok. I thought you meant NZ companies, which I'm pleased to see aren't as far as I can tell. No surprise others are.

My question is, where did he get all those guns? Are they so easy to get in New Zealand?

I'm guessing that's where the accomplices are involved. Guns just aren't that easy to get in NZ, although if you have gang links it gets a lot easier and Chch has always had a very strong skinhead/white supremacist culture.

 

[Ryokan]

Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.

One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

McHrozni

Norway has slightly more than New Zealand, yet it's unthinkable that a foreigner can land here and instantly aquire that many semi-automatic weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

As I said above here, Breivik tried this for a year. He failed.

So my question remains, where did he get the guns? Who sold/gave them to him? If it's someone who aquired the guns legally, how did someone amass that many weapons without the authorities taking a look at them?

 

[Travis]

Probably not, or else something like this wouldn't happen.

Anyway, I'll go out on a limb and claim someone - a group of people - was incited by the years and years of radical Islamic violence all over the world and decided Muslims must die for the rest of us to be safe.

It's not like when Muslims go on a rampage. They aren't incitable at all, it's always a case of undiagnosed mental illness with them.
McHrozni

Um, what?

 

[McHrozni]

Norway has slightly more than New Zealand, yet it's unthinkable that a foreigner can land here and instantly aquire that many semi-automatic weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

As I said above here, Breivik tried this for a year. He failed.

So my question remains, where did he get the guns? Who sold/gave them to him? If it's someone who aquired the guns legally, how did someone amass that many weapons without the authorities taking a look at them?

Ah, all of those will no doubt be thorughly investigated and the guilty brought to justice. I was merely asking where the guns came from - there are at least 250,000 possible sources in a country of 4 million.

Japan would be a different matter (1 civilian gun per 300 people), to pick an extreme on the other side.

McHrozni

 

[cullennz]

Ok. I thought you meant NZ companies, which I'm pleased to see aren't as far as I can tell. No surprise others are.



I'm guessing that's where the accomplices are involved. Guns just aren't that easy to get in NZ, although if you have gang links it gets a lot easier and Chch has always had a very strong skinhead/white supremacist culture.

This isn't entirely true

The skinhead types in the 80's were around, but they kind of got pushed away to Dunedin, and then pretty much died out, probably due to boredom

It has always had a Mongrel Mob presence and other scum gangs, which can get them just as easily

 

[smartcooky]

Apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Zealand

1.5 million private guns for 4 million citizens. Per capita they appear to be more heavily armed than North Korea.



One in 8 New Zealanders (including infants) owns a firearm, the average is six guns per owner. It probably wasn't all that hard.

McHrozni

I think that is unfair. Many of those guns are shotguns (duck and goose shooting are popular seasonal sports here) and hunting rifles (again, hunting is a popular sports).

Guns such as handguns and MSSAs are supposed to be difficult to get. If I were a betting man, I would guess that most of his guns were either stolen, or smuggled in or both. I doubt he would have a firearms licence as he would likely fail the "fit and proper person" test.

I guess we are now going to see a whole raft of new firearms restrictions brought in. Every firearm will have to be on a register as well as every firearms owner. And I can tell you, unlike the USA, any new restrictions will have near unanimous support from all parties in the house, and will have the overwhelming support of New Zealanders, even gun owners like me.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

All they way through reading it, two names kept popping into my head..... Andres Brevik and Rep Steve King

Exactly, it read as a typical white supremacist pamphlet. Nothing new.
I was particularly taken back by all his references to causing strife in the US. We have enough already without any help, thanks.

Chris B.

 

[McHrozni]

Um, what?

I'm sarcastic. When there were examples of Muslim attacks similar to this (Paris, Tolouse, Florida) the usual line was "mental patient", "has no connection to Islam", "don't blame Islam", "you don't understand what they went through" and so on. Israel features prominently. A common trope is that "he's only a terrorist because he isn't white, he wouldn't be called a terrorist if he was white".

I'm using (some might say abusing, but idk) this sad example of a non-Muslim extremist doing what has been a nearly exclusive domain of Muslims for many years to highlight the hypocrycy is reversed. There is no leniency offered because this guy is white or because he targets Muslims, if anything he (or this group, there appear to be many) recieves worse criticism than Muslim terrorists do.

There is nothing wrong in how he is treated, but neither are Muslim extremists deserving of lighter treatment because they're Muslim. That's all I'm saying.

McHrozni