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David Icke's Visa Cancelled

sadhatter said:
I've heard that about punk rock, rap music, horror films, dungeons and dragons, heavy metal, video games, and catcher in the rye.

But sure bud, this time the hype train is real.

Personally, when I hear that about media I know the parson is saying " I don't like this but I have no actual reason to ban it. ".
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Do you deny that the Pizzagate conspiracy theory led to violence? Or do you think that Edgar Maddison Welch fired three shots at the Comet restaurant because they skimped on the oregano on his last order?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Practically speaking, visas are a privilege, not a right. I don't see "quackery" as a characteristic worthy of special protection from government discrimination.

If he was a citizen, he could quack all he likes, but he's not. I'm ok with Aus saying they don't need any and declining entry.
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A number of Australian citizens bought tickets to his event. Are their preferences legitimate targets of government discrimination?
 
smartcooky said:
Do you deny that the Pizzagate conspiracy theory led to violence? Or do you think that Edgar Maddison Welch fired three shots at the Comet restaurant because they skimped on the oregano on his last order?
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If it wasn't that pizza place it would have been somewhere else.

What you seem to miss is that unhinged people like weird ****. That does not mean that only unhinged people like it, or that it makes them unhinged.

Think of it this way.

If we have a burgeoning serial killer who likes rap, I'd put my money on the fact that he is going to have some I.C.P. (or the like) in his music collection. He will be drawn to the violence and horror.

If we have a horror nerd who likes rap, he is likely going to have some I.C.P (or the like) in his collection. He will be drawn to the violence and horror.

The first guy may even take the songs as instructions,or advice, possibly even acceptance of actions he wants to take.

But the thing is, neither of these guys (for good or ill ) were created by I.C.P. , they were drawn by their taste for violence and gore.

But people have been saying exactly what you are about bands like them (hell going back to jazz) , for as long as I can remember. And still it reeks of "there outta be a law" cranked to 11.
 
arthwollipot said:
But that's the problem. When he speaks, people listen. They pay attention. They believe. He has 169,000 followers on Twitter. If all doubts were removed when he speaks, he wouldn't have followers. He'd be a nobody.
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I sometimes feel this way about politicians I don't like. Berinie, AOC - frickin socialists! People actually believe that this garbage can work? They should be silenced.

And what if one day alien lizard people do invade Earth?

Never heard of David Icke - someone here must be promoting him ;)
 
sadhatter said:
If it wasn't that pizza place it would have been somewhere else.
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And but for the Pizzagate Conspiracy Theory, it would not have happened at all!

sadhatter said:
What you seem to miss is that unhinged people like weird ****. That does not mean that only unhinged people like it, or that it makes them unhinged.
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So you rule out any possibility that a conspiracy theory could ever capture a perfectly sane person and turn them from an ordinary person into a an unhinged person.
 
theprestige said:
I trust them to do whatever they think best. I'm not asking you what they should do. I'm asking you what policy you think is best.

Please just answer the question I actually asked.
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Apologies for the unneeded snark.

As a matter of policy, the government should try to use good government when denying entry to the country. Denying a visa to a conspiracy monger would be prudent, by my judgement. Some Australians may disagree with that and feel deprived. That's the nature of making judgment calls, some will disagree.

Some degree of haziness is going to be present on these edge cases. Since these aren't citizens and visa permission is optional, I'm willing to grant a bit of deference to the authorities to make judgement calls on what constitutes an unsavory character.

If the authority is so far out of step that enough people feel miffed about the decision, pressure could be placed to change future decisions. I don't see a few conspiracy cranks rising anywhere near that level.
 
If allowing this man a platform has allowed him to amass followers rather than expose his bad ideas, then that is on society as a whole, for failing to instill the importance of critical thinking skills within its people. The efforts to combat these bad ideas should be taking place in the education systems of our children, not by going down the slippery slope of censorship. These short-sighted efforts to quash wrong-think only serves to verify his beliefs and those of his followers and strengthens their resolve.
 
theprestige said:
A number of Australian citizens bought tickets to his event. Are their preferences legitimate targets of government discrimination?
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Denying a visa to Icke does not target Australian citizens for government discrimination. Only Icke is being discriminated against. This is like saying the government is penalizing whatever airline Icke would've used to fly to Australia because denying him entry means the airline doesn't get to sell him a seat now.
 
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uke2se said:
Ok

ETA: The answer to your fist question is "no."

The answer to your second question is "questionable, but worth looking at".

I think de-platforming the worst grifters and purveyors of radicalizing conspiracy theories is a way to push back against the spread. If de-platforming had no effect, nobody would care.
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So the way to defend Western Civilzation is to throw away freedom of Speech, one of it's defining values?

And the question, of course is "Who Will Watch The Watchers"? Who defines what is a "radicalizing Conspiracy Theory"?
 
I, for one, support the sovereignty of Australia. They should be free to deny the visa of anyone the people in power find objectionable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
smartcooky said:
Frankly, I'd have simply ignored him - giving him the oxygen of this publicity is just playing into his hands. The more you ban people like this, the more intrigued and interested people become - you in effect create more publicity than they would have had if you had just ignored them
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QFT

A classic example of how de-platforming can backfire is David Irving. Nobody (apart from a few die hard followers) had ever heard of him before. Then in 1993, the minister for immigration decided to deny him a visa because of "character" grounds. Suddenly, David Irving became a house hold name and his holocaust denial views plastered all over the media.
 
xjx388 said:
I, for one, support the sovereignty of Australia. They should be free to deny the visa of anyone the people in power find objectionable.
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I too support the sovereignty of Australia.

I too, agree that they should be free to deny the visa of anyone the people in power find objectionable.

However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with what they have done.
 
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