horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett

[William Parcher]

Remember when gay activist fanatic Ellen Page blamed The Vice President for jussie’s Hate hoax?

Pence is the reason why Smollett created the attack hoax. Pence is to blame. Page was correct.

 

[The Big Dog]

Pence is the reason why Smollett created the attack hoax. Pence is to blame. Page was correct.

interesting theory.....

 

[Ziggurat]

Pence is the reason why Smollett created the attack hoax. Pence is to blame. Page was correct.

You have a strange notion of what the word "blame" means.

 

[tyr_13]

Congrats on your lack of errors

Thanks, but I did miss the 'y' in 'any' in that very post. Such is life.

OK, you didn't make any errors.

But you were slow to reach the right answer. Perhaps ideology isn't the reason, but something must be. Have you done any introspection to figure out why?

Oh, was I? How would you know? As it happens, yeah, but I did my introspection first before tackling the question of if I believed this happened as reported, and did not take a stance of believing or disbelieving at that time. I then even answered theprestige's question on what the best evidence against it was. That is why I didn't come up with stances that turned out to be wrong based on incomplete evidence and my own bias.

Perhaps you were to quick to reach the 'right answer' because of ideology, used confirmation bias to forget the wrong things you thought about it, and are rationalizing your conclusion being true as evidence that your logic was valid and sound. Have you done any introspection to figure out why?

(I don't remember Zig posting in this thread till now, so I don't actually know what claims he made here, and my asking for citations above was genuine.)

 

[Ziggurat]

Oh, was I? How would you know? As it happens, yeah

“As it happens”. Pure luck on my part, obviously.

Perhaps you were to quick to reach the 'right answer' because of ideology

Perhaps. Or perhaps I and others understood something about the world that you didn’t. You claim you’ve been introspective about this, but it seems you are only capable of that up to a point. It’s not even a possibility worth entertaining that I might have understood the situation better than you, you have to rationalize that away.

 

[Puppycow]

Lock him up!

Was interesting and sad seeing most of the major news sites assuming the story was true from the get go. Many of the major news outlets ignored or back-paged stories of inconsistencies as they came out.

They showed tweets from celebrities condemning, getting riled up. "White people are at it again!" He did some real damage.

This guy should do maximum time. What kind of a screwed up loser must he be to do something like this? I knew it was bullcrap from the start but didn't dream he'd go this far to fake it. That's something I could not have predicted.

Trying to stoke racial hatred by staging a fake crime like this - unbelievably f'd up. Nothing new here though, it's happened a lot in recent years (see vandalized churches and synagogues).

He/they even bought red hats as if that would somehow be enough to convince people they were MAGA folk. Disgusting beyond words. Lock him up!

Historically, in other similar cases, I think the consequences have been fairly light:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Todd_mugging_hoax

On October 24, Todd confessed to inventing the story after police reviewed surveillance camera photos and administered a polygraph test.[7] She now said that she had seen the backwards "B" on her face while driving, and though she did not remember how she got it, assumed that she herself had done it because she had had previous episodes of memory loss.[3] According to police, Todd provided no explanation of why she provided them the story about the mugging instead.[8]

Todd was charged with filing a false police report, a misdemeanor charge with a maximum jail sentence of two years. While jailed, Todd underwent a court-ordered psychiatric examination and was deemed to be competent to stand trial, but in need of further counseling. On October 30, she agreed to a deal in which she was released from jail, but must undergo psychiatric counseling as condition of her release. Upon her formal arraignment in January, Todd would enter a probation program for first-time offenders, after which her record would be expunged if there had been no further offenses. Continued mental health counseling would also be a condition of the probation period. The deal did not require Todd to enter a plea.[8]

No jail time, "psychiatric counseling" and probation. She didn't even have to enter a plea and her record would be expunged.

 

[Puppycow]

Perhaps you were to quick to reach the 'right answer' because of ideology, used confirmation bias to forget the wrong things you thought about it, and are rationalizing your conclusion being true as evidence that your logic was valid and sound. Have you done any introspection to figure out why?

(I don't remember Zig posting in this thread till now, so I don't actually know what claims he made here, and my asking for citations above was genuine.)

I'll answer for myself: I'm taking the fact that I turned out to be right as evidence that my logic was valid and sound.

I've spotted fake hate crime hoaxes in the past too (along with others), where the politics (and races) were reversed. The fictional assailant was a black Obama supporter and the alleged victim/hoaxer was a white Republican campaign volunteer.

 

[baron]

I'll answer for myself: I'm taking the fact that I turned out to be right as evidence that my logic was valid and sound.

I've spotted fake hate crime hoaxes in the past too (along with others), where the politics (and races) were reversed. The fictional assailant was a black Obama supporter and the alleged victim/hoaxer was a white Republican campaign volunteer.

Same here (specifics aside). I imagine some posters have already sifted my history for evidence that I've disbelieved attack stories by black people which later turned out to be true. I could have told them they were wasting their time. We're all just lucky, I guess.

 

[shuttlt]

Same here (specifics aside). I imagine some posters have already sifted my history for evidence that I've disbelieved attack stories by black people which later turned out to be true. I could have told them they were wasting their time. We're all just lucky, I guess.

If I recall, the Central Scrutinizer managed the same feat of precognition with the Jackie hoax.

 

[Thermal]

Just a reminder: a few days ago the police had arrested the brothers and the 'I'm Totally One Of The Good Ones' crowd immediately started running their judgemental victory lap. We don't actually have anything solid yet, and are relying on unofficial leaks regarding this assumed guilt of Smollett. Still might have more fun on tap.

Poster tyr_13 made an interesting comment about letting ideology distort your thinking, and coming to the right conclusion while using flawed logic. A couple posters aside, that is not what has been happening here. The story stunk to high heaven from it's initial presentation. I think posters here have been mostly sniffing around to find the feces, more than pushing agendas.

But I suppose there is no point in discussing that. Actually, it's kind of interesting how the ITOOTGOs will insult no matter the outcome. They certainly did so here, when they thought their narrative had prevailed. They've gotten inexplicably quiet in the last couple days, of course, while The Doubters have sustained discussion all along. I think that means something.

 

[Puppycow]

Even if the incident turns out to be fake the people who claimed that it was definitely fake are, in fact, still wrong for doing so. No "mea culpas" will ever redeem that evil.

You cannot call a coin "heads, I know for a fact it is heads" in the air and then when the coin lands assume that people are going to believe that you really did have some super secret detective power. No, a logical person will think you likely are either just full of it or have an ulterior motive. And if the logical thinker notices that you always do it when it suits racism or bigotry then it logically follows that you are trying to align reality to suit your evils.

One problem with the coin flip analogy is that unless half of all reported hate crimes are hoaxes, or close to half, the odds of correctly identifying any one hoax purely through luck would be quite low. If it's 5%, the odds would be one in 20. You'd have to be really lucky to call a roll of a D20 correctly. Luckily I didn't rely on guesswork too much. You can throw the odds out the window and just focus on whether the signs point to it being real or not. In this case, too many things didn't add up and too many things had the hallmarks of a hoax.

So I don't think it was just a matter of a lucky guess. There were clues from the very beginning for those able to recognize them.

 

[angrysoba]

Well, I'll admit that my bias was in favour of believing the story. I am still amazed at what seems to be the case...that it was a hoax. My own view was that it seemed like such an unlikely scenario with the possible exception of setting up the hoax to cover for someone.

Also, I am not going to engage in any "You were wrong to be right while I was right to be wrong" contortions. I was just plain wrong, while Puppycow and others were just plain right.

 

[Drewbot]

I'm wondering if Smollett's credit card was used to buy the airfare to Nigeria.

I'm wondering if the attorney quit because Smollett isn't forthcoming with how deep into this he got.

I wonder if the manager actually heard "Maga" or if he just made that up to feel more a part of the story, and to support Smollett.

 

[angrysoba]

I'm wondering if Smollett's credit card was used to buy the airfare to Nigeria.

I'm wondering if the attorney quit because Smollett isn't forthcoming with how deep into this he got.

I wonder if the manager actually heard "Maga" or if he just made that up to feel more a part of the story, and to support Smollett.

Yeah, I now have to wonder what the manager will have to say about it. Also, I wonder if the legal team quit because this sounds like a very un-lawyerly thing to say:

Statement released by Jussie's legal team:

As a victim of a hate crime who has cooperated with the police investigation, Jussie Smollett is angered and devastated by recent reports that the perpetrators are individuals he is familiar with. He has now been further victimized by claims attributed to these alleged perpetrators that Jussie played a role in his own attack. Nothing is further from the truth and anyone claiming otherwise is lying.

One of these purported suspects was Jussie’s personal trainer who he hired to ready him physically for a music video. It is impossible to believe that this person could have played a role in the crime against Jussie or would falsely claim Jussie’s complicity.

Jussie and his attorneys anticipate being further updated by the Chicago Police Department on the status of the investigation and will continue to cooperate. At the present time, Jussie and his attorneys have no inclination to respond to “unnamed” sources inside of the investigation, but will continue discussions through official channels.

https://www.thewrap.com/jussie-smollett-attorneys-deny-attack-hoax-further-victimized/

 

[The Big Dog]

well for pete's sake, the fact that it was two alleged MAGA guys in Chicago at 2:00 on lower Water street... in CHICAGO.... when it was 5 degrees who allegedly recognized a minor Empire actor should have set off all the alarm bells.

Maybe if it was Oklahoma City or somewhere else in Red Country it would not have surprised anyone, but c'mon

 

[Foolmewunz]

Well, I was neither wrong or right and since the mods frown on derails about motives and rushes to judgement, I've been waiting and am still waiting for either the police to file charges or for Jussie or the Nigerian brothers to come forth with a statement confirming it.

Is there any source in CPD willing to be named? CNN has been running the same story for three days and still cites anonymous sources.

I privately thought it was probably b.s. but for the absolute worst reason possible, personal experience with a gay friend who came to work one day all beat up and blamed it on unknown muggers. I knew him to hang out in a rough trade bar on Greenwich Street. The mugger story just didn't bear up to scrutiny, but I let it drop. Of course, he wasn't a star who commanded a media presence but just a guy.

And I still maintain that I'm agnostic until someone confirms the info being put forth by the unnamed sources or until one of the actors in the event comes forward and admits what really went down.

 

[sadhatter]

One problem with the coin flip analogy is that unless half of all reported hate crimes are hoaxes, or close to half, the odds of correctly identifying any one hoax purely through luck would be quite low. If it's 5%, the odds would be one in 20. You'd have to be really lucky to call a roll of a D20 correctly. Luckily I didn't rely on guesswork too much. You can throw the odds out the window and just focus on whether the signs point to it being real or not. In this case, too many things didn't add up and too many things had the hallmarks of a hoax.

So I don't think it was just a matter of a lucky guess. There were clues from the very beginning for those able to recognize them.

If you know what to look for a 2 headed coin is easy to spot. Beast analogy for what was happening. This was someone trying to play a rigged game.

 

[tyr_13]

I'll answer for myself: I'm taking the fact that I turned out to be right as evidence that my logic was valid and sound.

I've spotted fake hate crime hoaxes in the past too (along with others), where the politics (and races) were reversed. The fictional assailant was a black Obama supporter and the alleged victim/hoaxer was a white Republican campaign volunteer.

I'm at work so I have to be quick and address Zig's misreading sperately, but I am definately not arguing that being right in conclusion here means one's reasoning must have been wrong. Of course there were posters who used valid reasoning and made appropriate cavates or changed with the information. Theprestige specifically comes to mind with that.

A quick and dirty check is who was vocal about the mail bombs being false flags or hoaxed versus their stances here. This story initially was simply not 'too crazy' to be true.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Going forward, I humbly submit that all instances of someone paying two Nigerian bodybuilders to lightly rough them up in subzero temperatures and play-act lynching them be referred to as getting Smolested.

 

[Thermal]

well for pete's sake, the fact that it was two alleged MAGA guys in Chicago at 2:00 on lower Water street... in CHICAGO.... when it was 5 degrees who allegedly recognized a minor Empire actor should have set off all the alarm bells.

Maybe if it was Oklahoma City or somewhere else in Red Country it would not have surprised anyone, but c'mon

Coupled with the threatening note, it's at least sort of plausible. The note suggests that people were actually out to get him, which would explain the stalking. But hanging out at 2AM in the freezing cold hoping he might walk out at that hour is inexplicable, unless Smollett had a habit of doing this at about that time.