Mueller Investigation pt4

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plague311 said:
But the circumstances themselves and the lengths he went through to keep the conversation hidden (sometimes not even having a translator), hiding it from his own staff, etc. is evidence of shady behavior. Just because things aren't proven in their entirety doesn't mean they can't be seen as clearly inappropriate behavior, which would lend evidence to covering up further behavior.
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I don't disagree at all. I have no doubt that Trump is hiding what was said in those meetings. I never said that because things aren't proven that it doesn't mean it didn't happen. What I did say was that "I think the Trump Tower meeting is the closest to actual collusion by Trump and his family we'll see." I meant that we know they lied about the meeting, they lied about who was there, and that Trump was the author of the lie about what they discussed.
 
acbytesla said:
I believe this too. Trump did something he KNOWS was highly illegal and Putin has all the dirt. He may not have intended to be Putin's puppet, but once you're compromised you're never getting off the hook.
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I can just imagine the scene in the FSB now.
"Hey comrade. There is a man named Steele sniffing around asking for evidence that Trump has been compromised. What should we do?"
"Ivan. I think we should tell him about the piss tape."
"Good idea!"
 
Giuliani's saying more things.

In an interview with CNN's Chris Cuomo on "Cuomo Prime Time," Giuliani, a former New York mayor and Trump's attorney, said he doesn't know if other people in the campaign, including former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, were working with the Kremlin during the 2016 presidential race.

"I never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or people in the campaign," Giuliani said.

He added, "I said the President of the United States. There is not a single bit of evidence the President of the United States committed the only crime you can commit here, conspiring with the Russians to hack the DNC."
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Linky.
 
varwoche said:
I have utterly no doubt that (1) Trump can be easily played and (2) Putin wouldn't pass up an extraordinary opportunity to apply his skills.
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It's not hard to picture how Trump's private conversations with Putin go : Putin sympathises with him about the Witch-Hunt, agrees with him about Crooked Hillary, agrees about the Lugenpresse which is bent on setting the US and Russia against each other for no good reason, tells him he's a breath of fresh air amongst world leaders and doing a hugely impressive job in the face of enormous hostility.

Contrast this with Trump's usual experience of meeting world leaders, who insist on telling him he's wrong and doesn't understand stuff and are exactly like the elites which have refused to recognise his outstanding qualities for his entire life. Of course he loves Putin (and MBS, who I'm sure plays it the same way).
 
a_unique_person said:
I can just imagine the scene in the FSB now.
"Hey comrade. There is a man named Steele sniffing around asking for evidence that Trump has been compromised. What should we do?"
"Ivan. I think we should tell him about the piss tape."
"Good idea!"
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That's the one part of the story I don't necessarily buy. But who knows? Maybe. It could be countless things.

I absolutely believe Trump is being blackmailed. Because his behavior is indicative of being compromised. Everyone has been concerned about his relations with Russia. And Trump could easily dispell all this and act tougher towards Russia and Putin But he doesn't. Why does he tear up the interpreters notes? That is just bizarre.

That Trump ever even promoted the idea of improving relations with Russia. That bought him zero, zip zilch when it comes to votes. So why push it? Then its like everyone and his brother in Trump's campaign has Russian connections and just about EVERYONE lied about it.

I mean if its all innocent, why is EVERYONE LYING?
 
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acbytesla said:
That's the one part of the story I don't necessarily buy. But who knows? Maybe. It could be countless things.
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Personally, I don't think the FSB registered Steele's presence at all, and anyway the pee-pee tape story has going about for years, apparently. I suspect it was dreamed up by journalists towards the end of a convivial evening.


I absolutely believe Trump is being blackmailed. Because his behavior that is indicative of being compromised. He's bHe hides the interpreters notes. Why? Everyone has been concerned about his relations with Russia. And Trump could easily dispell all this and act tougher towards Russia and Putin But he doesn't. Why does he tear up the interpreters notes? That is just bizarre.
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If the conversation touched on the Trump Tower meeting, which I gather was breaking news at the time, that would explain it. I doubt Trump's being blackmailed myself : Manafort's being leant on, no doubt about that, but not, I think, Trump. He's just trapped in a crazy web of his own making.
 
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Stacyhs said:
I don't disagree at all. I have no doubt that Trump is hiding what was said in those meetings. I never said that because things aren't proven that it doesn't mean it didn't happen. What I did say was that "I think the Trump Tower meeting is the closest to actual collusion by Trump and his family we'll see." I meant that we know they lied about the meeting, they lied about who was there, and that Trump was the author of the lie about what they discussed.
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It's the incident which puts the family squarely in the frame, and in a most compromising manner.
 
CapelDodger said:
I doubt Trump's being blackmailed myself : Manafort's being leant on, no doubt about that, but not, I think, Trump. He's just trapped in a crazy web of his own making.
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I could see Putin doing a sort of good-cop-bad-cop thing. "Da, many times I have asked Oleg to just forget about all of that casino business. Water under the bridge, yes? But he simply will not let it go. Perhaps I can stall him a while longer, but I am so busy managing this Syria mess! If only . . . "
 
plague311 said:
But the circumstances themselves and the lengths he went through to keep the conversation hidden (sometimes not even having a translator), hiding it from his own staff, etc. is evidence of shady behavior. Just because things aren't proven in their entirety doesn't mean they can't be seen as clearly inappropriate behavior, which would lend evidence to covering up further behavior.
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I wonder how successful Putin might have been if he tried to convince the president that
(A) the Chinese fear PDJT because he stopped the Chinese from cheating America with their lopsided trade,
(B) therefore they have compromised some of the president’s top people,
(C) because all powerful people cheat on their wives, cheat on their taxes, cheat their business partners, and violate all sorts of laws,
(D) therefore PDJT needs to destroy any records of what has been discussed in this private meeting and needs to schedule more one-on-one meetings.
 
dasmiller said:
I could see Putin doing a sort of good-cop-bad-cop thing. "Da, many times I have asked Oleg to just forget about all of that casino business. Water under the bridge, yes? But he simply will not let it go. Perhaps I can stall him a while longer, but I am so busy managing this Syria mess! If only . . . "
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"Oleg says, if you see Manafort, tell him he's in our thoughts and prayers".
 
Trump lies in order to make himself looks awesome or to get himself out of trouble.
Nothing about helping and praising Russia is making him look awesome - in all other cases that poll badly, Trump drops a losing issue and claims he never said that.

But with Russia, Trump is single-mindedly supportive of the regime, against all evidence.
This comes at reals costs to Trump.

Trump wouldn't keep doing it if the consequences of going against Putin weren't worse for him than losing the White House and his Empire.
 
CapelDodger said:
Personally, I don't think the FSB registered Steele's presence at all, and anyway the pee-pee tape story has going about for years, apparently. I suspect it was dreamed up by journalists towards the end of a convivial evening.
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Steele was gathering raw intelligence with no analysis of whether it was true. The very nature of that kind of information is likely to produce mixed results when it comes to accuracy. That pee ppe story is so salacious that it is much more likely to be false than true. That said, it's amazing just how much of the Steele Dossier has proven to be true.
CapelDodger said:
If the conversation touched on the Trump Tower meeting, which I gather was breaking news at the time, that would explain it. I doubt Trump's being blackmailed myself : Manafort's being leant on, no doubt about that, but not, I think, Trump. He's just trapped in a crazy web of his own making.
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I don't think that explains it at all. And Trump has met with Putin more than just once. I also don't buy all of this is of his own making. Trump is lazy. Always looking for the shortcut. And yet every damn thing he has done regarding Russia has been the hard way. It just doesn't add up.
 
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More-than-rumour has it Trump's businesses have been money-laundering funnels for many years. All it took was some nice guys in ill-fitting suits and Slavic accents to say what a great guy he was to help them out. In return, they helped him with a few business debts. Heck, even when the casinos went under, no matter how many millions in chips they bought, they were so nice that they helped finance him to set up some more failing building projects. Trump being Trump would have lapped up the back-slapping bonhomie and not cared in the slightest how dodgy it was...if he even knew.
 
Comey getting fired after showing Trump the Steele Dossier because Trump felt he has being blackmailed strongly suggests to me that he was already being blackmailed with some of the material.
If his instincts weren't that the Feds were the enemy, he might have used them to get out from under Putin's thumb. They probably would have been ecstatic about undoing an influence campaign on the President and might even have helped him spin his getting elected with Russian help as a kind of sting operation.
 
Stacyhs said:
No. I also know Trump's met with Putin one on one (besides translators) for which there is no record of what was said. But as I just said, we don't know what was said.
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You seem to be missing a whole history of money laundering and other issues.

Then there are all the things his inner circle have done that are incredibly unlikely Trump wasn't in on.
 
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acbytesla said:
That pee ppe story is so salacious that it is much more likely to be false than true.
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It strikes me as exactly the sort of petty, spiteful thing Trump would do. Obama mocked him and made important people laugh at him whilst the whole world was watching; for someone with narcissistic personality disorder that was the worst thing that could possibly happen to him. I also have no trouble believing Putin has a tape of it. What I don't believe is that it's an effective blackmail tool. Show that tape to most of Trump's core supporters and they'd cheer.
 
BobTheCoward said:
The federal government exercises prosecutorial discretion. The president could determine the president is too big to fail and choose not to prosecute. The public doesn't get access to data collected in prosecutions that are not pursued.
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The problem here is that the President does not actually have the power to order who can and cannot be prosecuted, that is a determination made by the AG only. He can recommend to his AG that he not be prosecuted, but ultimately that decision is in the hands of the AG. The President can also fire an AG that decides to prosecute, however that might well end up being another Saturday Night Massacre, and we all know how well the last one went.

Of course there is also the question as to the ability to actually indict and prosecute a sitting President, which has arguments on both sides and has yet to be tested in Court.

The most likely event in when a President was found to have taken indictable actions, is that the House will start Impeachment as this is the mandated way in the Constitution to remove such a President, after while, assuming he is found guilty and removed and that his successor does not Pardon him, indictments can be made and prosecution begun.
 
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