Mueller Investigation pt4

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a_unique_person said:
May not know what he is doing? May not know? There must be a secret club somewhere of rich people who have made a lot of easy money out of Trump.
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No, I think Trump could imagine he's doing favors for his pal Putin in exchange for promises of future favors (Trump Tower Moscow?) without actually understanding the impact on the America government and national interests, about which Trump clearly has no knowledge or understanding.

What does Trump know about Ukraine or Syria, for example, except what Vlad tells him? Trump certainly doesn't listen to his own advisors.
 
Trump's general ignorance, laziness, lack of curiosity, lack of listening to anyone but himself, and narcissism make his being a "useful idiot" more likely, imo, than knowingly colluding with Putin.
 
Stacyhs said:
Trump's general ignorance, laziness, lack of curiosity, lack of listening to anyone but himself, and narcissism make his being a "useful idiot" more likely, imo, than knowingly colluding with Putin.
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I'm not so sure. How do we explain that his entire brain trust met with Russian operatives to get dirt on Clinton? And Junior calling him with an update. And Manafort handing over polling data to his Russian buddy. And the bizarre change to the GOP platform that they all lied about. And Stone's advance knowledge of the data dump. And the myriad of things Trump has said/done that are against American interests in favor of Russian interests.

I suspect that useful idiocy led to him being compromised, and then he became Putin's agent for all practical purposes. Got to ditch the home boys when you huddle up with the big boss after all.
 
varwoche said:
I'm not so sure. How do we explain that his entire brain trust met with Russian operatives to get dirt on Clinton? And Junior calling him with an update. And Manafort handing over polling data to his Russian buddy. And the bizarre change to the GOP platform that they all lied about. And Stone's advance knowledge of the data dump. And the myriad of things Trump has said/done that are against American interests in favor of Russian interests.

I suspect that useful idiocy led to him being compromised, and then he became Putin's agent for all practical purposes. Got to ditch the home boys when you huddle up with the big boss after all.
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I believe this too. Trump did something he KNOWS was highly illegal and Putin has all the dirt. He may not have intended to be Putin's puppet, but once you're compromised you're never getting off the hook.
 
varwoche said:
I'm not so sure. How do we explain that his entire brain trust met with Russian operatives to get dirt on Clinton? And Junior calling him with an update. And Manafort handing over polling data to his Russian buddy. And the bizarre change to the GOP platform that they all lied about. And Stone's advance knowledge of the data dump. And the myriad of things Trump has said/done that are against American interests in favor of Russian interests.

I suspect that useful idiocy led to him being compromised, and then he became Putin's agent for all practical purposes. Got to ditch the home boys when you huddle up with the big boss after all.
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I think the Trump Tower meeting is the closest to actual collusion by Trump and his family we'll see. I do wonder if, in their zeal to get 'dirt' on Hillary, they really realized what they were doing was collusion. This kind of thing in the business world wouldn't be unusual at all. If not, it had to have dawned on them pretty quickly as evidenced by their efforts to hide it and then lie about it.

Manafort could well have handed over polling date without Trump or the rest of his staff knowing about it.

Stone's knowledge about the data dump came from Assange, didn't it?

As much as I detest Trump, I just don't see him being an agent for Putin...at least one who recognized it.
 
Stacyhs said:
I think the Trump Tower meeting is the closest to actual collusion by Trump and his family we'll see. I do wonder if, in their zeal to get 'dirt' on Hillary, they really realized what they were doing was collusion. This kind of thing in the business world wouldn't be unusual at all. If not, it had to have dawned on them pretty quickly as evidenced by their efforts to hide it and then lie about it.

Manafort could well have handed over polling date without Trump or the rest of his staff knowing about it.

Stone's knowledge about the data dump came from Assange, didn't it?

As much as I detest Trump, I just don't see him being an agent for Putin...at least one who recognized it.
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That doesn't explain Trump's sycophantic and obsequious treatment of Putin and his political stances. I've NEVER EVER seen someone act as guilty as Donald Trump.
 
I don't think "knowing agent" and "useful idiot" are mutually exclusive, at least not altogether. I can picture Trump knowingly collaborating with Putin while thinking he was the one calling the shots and getting the benefits.
 
acbytesla said:
That doesn't explain Trump's sycophantic and obsequious treatment of Putin and his political stances. I've NEVER EVER seen someone act as guilty as Donald Trump.
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Trump sees in Putin what he wants to be himself. There is no doubt Trump admires Putin. If Putin treats him as an equal and tells him how great he is and that he admires Trump, Trump will eat it up.
 
Trebuchet said:
I don't think "knowing agent" and "useful idiot" are mutually exclusive, at least not altogether. I can picture Trump knowingly collaborating with Putin while thinking he was the one calling the shots and getting the benefits.
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I think Trump would see that not as collusion, but as outsmarting Putin.
 
varwoche said:
I'm not so sure. How do we explain that his entire brain trust met with Russian operatives to get dirt on Clinton? And Junior calling him with an update. And Manafort handing over polling data to his Russian buddy. And the bizarre change to the GOP platform that they all lied about. And Stone's advance knowledge of the data dump. And the myriad of things Trump has said/done that are against American interests in favor of Russian interests.

I suspect that useful idiocy led to him being compromised, and then he became Putin's agent for all practical purposes. Got to ditch the home boys when you huddle up with the big boss after all.
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The Russians offered the information knowing full well the implications while team Trump would have had no idea. Kills two birds with one stone. Dirt dished on Hillary, team Trump severely compromised and under suspicion by his own security forces. Why go through Trump when you could just as easily bypass him entirely?
 
varwoche said:
I'm not so sure. How do we explain that his entire brain trust met with Russian operatives to get dirt on Clinton? And Junior calling him with an update. And Manafort handing over polling data to his Russian buddy. And the bizarre change to the GOP platform that they all lied about. And Stone's advance knowledge of the data dump. And the myriad of things Trump has said/done that are against American interests in favor of Russian interests.

I suspect that useful idiocy led to him being compromised, and then he became Putin's agent for all practical purposes. Got to ditch the home boys when you huddle up with the big boss after all.
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Yes. Compromat. Russians must be pinching themselves that it was all so easy.
 
Stacyhs said:
Trump sees in Putin what he wants to be himself. There is no doubt Trump admires Putin. If Putin treats him as an equal and tells him how great he is and that he admires Trump, Trump will eat it up.
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I have utterly no doubt that (1) Trump can be easily played and (2) Putin wouldn't pass up an extraordinary opportunity to apply his skills.
 
acbytesla said:
That doesn't explain Trump's sycophantic and obsequious treatment of Putin and his political stances. I've NEVER EVER seen someone act as guilty as Donald Trump.
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His pattern of behaviour is love for anyone who fawns over him. Democratically elected leaders don't tend to do that. They prefer mutual respect. Trump identifies with people who bully and flatter each other with empty platitudes.
 
a_unique_person said:
No doubt. Putin is quite happy to have him think that.
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Donald, we are called upon as strong leaders, the likes of which the world has never seen, both of us with a bold vision for the future, to make the world a better place, a safer place, for our children and grandchildren.

And I tell you Donald, or should I say comrade? Nobody will ever see that piss tape. I have the only copy safe in my possession. <crude joke about hot Russian babes and piss goes here>
 
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Stacyhs said:
No. I also know Trump's met with Putin one on one (besides translators) for which there is no record of what was said. But as I just said, we don't know what was said.
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But the circumstances themselves and the lengths he went through to keep the conversation hidden (sometimes not even having a translator), hiding it from his own staff, etc. is evidence of shady behavior. Just because things aren't proven in their entirety doesn't mean they can't be seen as clearly inappropriate behavior, which would lend evidence to covering up further behavior.
 
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