Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[wobs]

Gove:
"We've had enough of experts.

Also Gove:
"Michael Gove also had warm words about cross-party cooperation, and argued that "we should draw on wisdom from great minds outside of politics" as well."

So experts then.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480704

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Tusk is making an argument

No actually Tusk is asking a question in order to make a point of fact.

If you can't agree a deal, and you don't want to leave without a deal then the only other option is not to leave.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Gove:
"We've had enough of experts.

Also Gove:
"Michael Gove also had warm words about cross-party cooperation, and argued that "we should draw on wisdom from great minds outside of politics" as well."

So experts then.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480704

No he means 'people who agree with me' like Lord Digby Ploppypants and Sir James Psycho

 

[BobTheCoward]

No actually Tusk is asking a question in order to make a point of fact.

If you can't agree a deal, and you don't want to leave without a deal then the only other option is not to leave.

....says the wife beater

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

....says the wife beater

Perhaps you would offer a 4th option then?

I don't quite know why you have settled on the wife beating analogy as apt I mean it applies just about everywhere.

If you go to a store to buy a new TV you either pay the sticker price, negotiate a lower price or leave without a TV.

If you go to a restaurant you either eat whats on the menu, see if you can persuade them to make something else or leave without eating.

If you want to leave a club you either walk away, negotiate a deal to keep some of the benefits or you stay in the club

 

[Matthew Best]

Donald Tusk is a wife beater? This is news to me, though I'm not sure how it's relevant.

 

[Nessie]

....says the wife beater

What other option is there?

You abusive relationship analogy is poor, if anything the UK is the abusive child who is tolerated.

 

[jimbob]

Bad argument. That is like saying you should stay with a domestic abuser because of financial stability.

A piss poor analogy.

A better one would be a group of housemates, where one decides that they want to move out because they have been told there's a mansion available with free utility usage and the rent is a fraction of the cost.

When it turns out to be a crack house, and the utilities are only free due to nonexistence, and the rent is going to a lot - it makes sense to look at staying where you are.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Perhaps you would offer a 4th option then?

I don't quite know why you have settled on the wife beating analogy as apt I mean it applies just about everywhere.

If you go to a store to buy a new TV you either pay the sticker price, negotiate a lower price or leave without a TV.

If you go to a restaurant you either eat whats on the menu, see if you can persuade them to make something else or leave without eating.

If you want to leave a club you either walk away, negotiate a deal to keep some of the benefits or you stay in the club

In those cases, the person making the choice does not feel abused. In the situation here, the abuser is asking the victim to stick it out with them for lack of a better option. That is continuing the abusive behavior.

 

[BobTheCoward]

A piss poor analogy.

A better one would be a group of housemates, where one decides that they want to move out because they have been told there's a mansion available with free utility usage and the rent is a fraction of the cost.

When it turns out to be a crack house, and the utilities are only free due to nonexistence, and the rent is going to a lot - it makes sense to look at staying where you are.

I'm not asserting that from the view of a third party like myself that it does look like the UK is abused. I think your view actually captures the reality. But Tusk doesn't need to convince me.

 

[Wudang]

In those cases, the person making the choice does not feel abused. In the situation here, the abuser is asking the victim to stick it out with them for lack of a better option. That is continuing the abusive behavior.

Well apart from the lack of victim and abuser in this scenario apart possibly for the UK abusing the EU's patience.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Tusk is making an argument

No, he's stating a syllogism. The only logically possible actions are to leave with a deal, to leave without a deal or not to leave. If leaving without a deal and leaving with a deal are excluded as possibilities - which is in effect the current position of Parliament - then the only remaining possibility is not to leave. By refusing to admit that, Parliament is denying reality.

Dave

 

[catsmate]

My brother's idea for the referendum was that you get ten questions on facts about the EU in a questionnaire and the number you get right is the number of votes you have.

I'd support that.

 

[catsmate]

Bad argument. That is like saying you should stay with a domestic abuser because of financial stability.

No, actually it's nothing at all like that.

 

[catsmate]

....says the wife beater

Again, nonsense.

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, he's stating a syllogism. The only logically possible actions are to leave with a deal, to leave without a deal or not to leave. If leaving without a deal and leaving with a deal are excluded as possibilities - which is in effect the current position of Parliament - then the only remaining possibility is not to leave. By refusing to admit that, Parliament is denying reality.

Dave

Inaction seems like a big possibility.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Again, nonsense.

How so?

 

[zooterkin]

Inaction seems like a big possibility.

Inaction results in leaving without a deal.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Inaction seems like a big possibility.

As Zooterkin says, not doing anything = leave with no deal, and Parliament is very strongly opposed to doing that. Logically this is trivial. Leave and not-leave are logical complements; within the leave subset, deal and no deal are logical complements.

And, as usual, you're trying to derail the discussion by arguing in favour of a point of view you don't actually agree with, then pretending it's everybody else's problem that they thought you were being honest.

DAve

 

[Castro]

No, he's stating a syllogism. The only logically possible actions are to leave with a deal, to leave without a deal or not to leave. If leaving without a deal and leaving with a deal are excluded as possibilities - which is in effect the current position of Parliament - then the only remaining possibility is not to leave. By refusing to admit that, Parliament is denying reality.

Dave

Yes, it seems logical. But, for some reason, it looks like the elephant in the room Parliament of Great Britain. It's puzzling.